/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>46628346
I only played the games from 6 to 14 for now and by far the "worst" tracks where not bad at all, just unremarkable and easy to forget.

>>46628436
>from 6 to 14
Things will change soon. Enjoy 15 while it lasts.

>>46628451
What is there a quality dive after 15?

>>46628346
The indie live expo theme

>>46628466
not really, it just starts getting more experimental
having played all the games, I'm in the same camp as you where there's none that I'd really call outright trash, just mediocre where I don't really pay any attention to it.
the only track that I can say I turn the game music off for is Eternal Transient Reign, and it's a fucking great song but I cannot listen to it any longer after all the time I spent on ISC. I just can't do it.

>>46628466
Generally, yeah. The good songs become fewer and fewer and the bad songs become worse and worse.

Btw, OP, now I'm going to say my worst tr-
>>46628500
Fuck, ninja'd. What a mess.

>>46628500
okay, yeah, I forgot about this one. That was straight up trash, what the fuck was he thinking

>>46628346
The drum starts to sound weird and annoying from touhou 13.
One of the tracks on touhou 16 (i dont remember the title) took the cake for the worst track ever. Not only does the drum sound cheap, the synth sounds like unmixed too.

The menu theme of Ten Desires is the worst one I've heard so far.

The later games have a lot of stuff that are really dragged down by weak drums.

>>46630267
>The menu theme of Ten Desires is the worst one I've heard so far.
You're crazy.

>>46628346
Kutaka's theme is audio diarrhea
A shame since her design is adorable

>>46630283
What's the appeal of it to you, then?

>>46628772
Speaking of weird drums, I actually don't like the sound of drums in th06. They are extremely tinny and have no depth to them. Overall the melodies and arrangements for the most part in EoSD are very cool, but the mixing, effects and EQing really leave a lot to be desired.

>>46630391
I agree. There's couple of tracks that are overall really solid to my ears, but there's a lot more with weird instrumentation/mixing choices. Lunar Clock has always been the worst offender to my ears, the melodies are so good but the really weird and bad drums really bring it down.

There's also a few tracks which I think just sound really awkward, like the stage themes of stages 1 and 2 and Rumia's theme.

ZUN as obviously learning how to make music in the Windows world though so I understand why there are a few duds and some weird choices. In context, it makes the PCB OST even better, it's such a huge leap in quality in a very short time in my opinion.

In some ways I feel like ZUN has looped back to "otherwise good tracks brought down by bad instrument choices". There's so much music in the newer games which would slap if it had actual drums instead of the fizzy FM shit you can't hear.

>>46630429
I agree with everything you wrote, even though I love the awkwardness of Rumia's theme. Also, I feel that PCB OST is so much better because ZUN got over the need to experiment with everything direct mixing and exporting to a wav in a DAW anabled him to do with th06, so the next game is a much more straightforward and subtle collection of mixing. Then th08 is again a huge soundtrack with a lot of phasers and reverbs but done much more skillfully.

If there's one soundtrack I'd like an official remake/remix of it's EoSD, especially done at the end of the classic windows era, but oh well.

Anything after 15
You can tell ZUN was just pressing buttons on his new midi machine trying to figure out what they do and had record enabled through the whole thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewGbGpEp-dM

Perfect example of a song ruined by overuse of the ZUNpet.

>>46630429
>>46630482
>but there's a lot more with weird instrumentation/mixing choices
Unpopular opinion: I really like the weird, distorted sound of the WAV OST of EoSD. It has a nostalgic feel that reminds me of the audio in old VHS.

>>46630568
I'm still flabbergasted to this day by how competent all LoLK tracks were and how unimaginably SHIIIT all HSiFS tracks are to the point he never recover from it as it bleeds into the future games. It's like if a completely different person took over him.

>>46628346
Zun lost the Mandate of Heaven after Double Dealing Character. There are a couple of standout tracks from the games afterwards but the soundtracks nowadays can't compare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oe7Z9B26X8
the worst remade track in 19, just ruined everything that makes the version from 10 good

Maybe a unpopular opinion but despite the Sakuya theme of EoSD being very nostalgic I dont like it very much, her theme In PoFV is very better.
https://youtu.be/01skyPMeeoc

>>46633781
LolK was great in my opinion. I mean, I don't like too much DDC, but LoLK is, without doubt, one of my favorites, and one of the reasons of why is the music.

>>46631959
Exactly, is like he had been another person.

>>46633899
It is not bad, it is just that a better version appeared after it.

>>46630367
I don't know how to talk about music but I love the piano and offbeat drums (?) and claps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s53iSvSeso

Which is the most experimental ZUN song?

>>46634129
"Interdimensional Voyage of a Ghostly Passenger Ship"

at times it's literal penis music

>>46634186
>at times it's literal penis music
kek

I don't mind the soundtrack itself (its unremarkable), but I played half of Touhou 19s story modes on mute because the music distribution is so bad. Like half the character themes go unplayed so you can go insane hearing the same few songs over and over and over again

>>46628500
Got details or source on that? I haven't heard it.

>>46634224
yeah turns out there's a patch on thcrap that forces the character themes to be played for every stage and it immediately makes the game much more bearable

>>46634233
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK1iSU4Geog

>>46634233
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSdjKImDTzU
I like it.

>>46633899
I remember back when i was playing 6 for the first time this song was really intimidating, can't hate it
>>46634129
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqkJmNe1MP0

>>46634129
In terms of being experimental for ZUN, this comes to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGIvZEr79mo
But in terms of being quite a weird song there's this. 1:40 is one of the hardest things ZUN's ever composed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVP_ZVaNahA

>>46628346
Almost everything past 15 is uninspiring. It sounds like a generalized AI-made version of Touhou tracks, where he just repeats popular riffs in the same damn pattern with not much variance anymore.

Older ones like PCB and SA were 100x better on this front. Almost every track had a different feel, not so much now.

>>46634129
UM's soundtrack is pretty experimental in general I think. People shit on Immemorial Marketeers when the game came out for not sounding much like a final boss theme but it's one of the most experimental final boss themes ZUN's ever done
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udn3r030Wic

>>46628500
I'm glad I'm not alone thinking this. I just remember seeing it get praised at the time, and I wasn't sure what they were hearing that I wasn't

>>46635211
I love Chimata's theme so much when it comes to the composition but it suffers from the usual nu-2hu music problem that the drums are super weak and thus it feels like there's no energy behind the track.

>>46628346
i've yet to find a ZUN song I didn't enjoy, just ones that weren't earworms. most of the ten desires soundtrack outside desire drive is my pick but i'd probably love it if i tried replaying TD
>>46634375
sannyo's theme is 'weird' in that it's a touhou theme in major key, that's it. it's legit my favourite stage theme besides, i dunno keine's in IN? it's also extremely fun to learn on piano so that too

is it even a true ZUN(TM) song if it doesn't feature at least one prominent section of i-VI harmonic movement?

>>46630391
>>46630429
I might be mistaken about this, but I believe that everything for EoSD was originally composed using a Roland SC-88Pro. The instruments are pretty different on that.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzdQcm51guT_Du9fuiiHpGENQWyLPtFoE

Now that we are agree the drum sounds weak. Can someone send a DM for ZUN to buy a DECENT DRUM SAMPLES.
Seriously the drum sounds like those free fruity loops sample. Why cant he just use organic bass drum like Reisen or Sakuya theme.
Its a SHMUP, if the drum sounds non-threatening, then its a shitty shmup game.

>>46634375
>>46635559
Like many other have noticed, Sannyo's stage theme is just Snow Halation lmao
https://youtu.be/lxfraBp3lxs?si=PJSCdniq5Lvc9Fh4

I personally find Touhou 18 and 19 soundtrack very weak and boring

>>46635751
you are right, he was still composing and making arrangements during th06 and th07 (and possibly th08?) era using an external sound canvas module from Roland. Installing a good soundfont (or even better, an SC unit) and playing MIDI versions through that is the best way to enjoy what ZUN intended at that stage of the process. That said, I think we should consider WAV versions bundled with the game as the "definitive" versions of the tracks, and those are not just MIDI versions using the Roland soundfont, as seen in that (cool) playlist you linked. WAVs have some... rather curious instrument and mixing choices re: EoSD.

>>46628500

That is most certainly his weakest track

>>46628500
I actually like this one quite a lot.

Literally the unique ZUN song that is really bad:
https://youtu.be/DdCsWBMHqfU
good thing that he removed

>>46633781
17 soundtrack is banging though. I'm very biased and its the only game where I genuinely like every track.

>>46643102
Most insane opinion ITT
I listen to this for hours on repeat.

>>46643027
that only applies to 6, 7 and onward were WAV first, midi as arranges

>>46630631
Fuck you dude. This is one of my favorite 2hu themes, even with these trumpets blasting my ears every time I listen to it.

>>46637232
Including the stage themes?

>>46634307
>>46634308
I was expecting this to sound worse. Granted I can see why people don't like it. Composition feels phoned in like it cobbled together a bunch of his past melodies and called it a day.

>>46628346
I do not like Yuuka's theme from PoFV, I think it's quite bad. Compare it to both of her themes from LLS and it's night and day.

>>46643145
I don't. But I'll give credit where it's due, Idolatrize World is excellent.

>>46654182
I realise this is kind of a pointless reply considering the theme of the thread but Yuuka's PoFV theme is one of my favourite ZUN tracks ever.
I can listen to it for hours.

>>46647326
And that's perfectly fine. But I think Necrofantasia is a far better song due to not making my ears bleed.

>>46628346
I find the Touhou music after MoF to be hit or miss. Some tracks are good, while others are not so great. For example, I find Touhou 13 to be quite boring thematically, but desire drive and old yuanxian are god tier. Similarly, in Touhou 19 I think Reimu's theme is excellent, but the others are somewhat meh, or Touhou 12 I think byakuren's theme and Nue's theme is god tier while the other themes are boring

>>46654988
Yeah post-MoF soundtracks are certainly less coherent when it comes to quality.
>Touhou 12
>Touhou 13
I think these two, especially 13, are a kind of weird experimental/transitional phase for Zun. I quite like the OST of 12, but it has some really weird moments (menu theme, Interdimensional Voyage of Ghostly Passenger Ship).

13 has...a lot of weird stuff, my least favorite 2hu track (the really boring and awkward menu theme) but also some of my favorites (Desire Drive, Starry Sky of Small Desires and Futatsuiwa from Sado). It's absolutely the most hit or miss from me and feels really different from other Touhou OST's.

>>46634224
It was bizarre for multiple reasons. I could get if you had 'generic battle themes' (A lot of the ULiL theme are like this and the majority are super good) but instead what they did was made Reimu/Marisa/I think Suika themes do double duty as early/mid/late stage themes, which means outside of the final two stages you listened to the same three songs, and even worse it's one of those games where the story's told gradually through expecting you to play through every character's story mode so you'll hear these a lot.

It also diminishes the actual character themes for Reimu/Marisa/Suika because it doesn't feel like they have character themes because they're used so often generically. It's a shame because for me this is the first Reimu theme that I think actually suited the character personality.

Yuuma's theme is the best in the series don't > me

>>46643145
>17
I'm maybe an outlier but I'm always surprised by how little praise this game gets on this board to the point where I suspect most people haven't really played it much.

People go on and on about the series 'stagnating' while 17 feels really different to the other games where the 'grimdark' shit is a lot more obvious which makes it tonally very different to the other games. The animal realm and its associated characters are all interesting and don't exist in a vacuum from other characters (Which I think is something ZUN has realized is important to making characters interesting and why Yuuma later was shown to have relationships with other old characters), genre variety was good and the systems/stages/bosses were good. Music is consistently good and varied. Only complaint I'd make is that while the normal final boss is a good climax in how it plays out, storywise it isn't very significant and making the bulk of the story 'protagonist goes after the wrong person' and then hurriedly resolving the actual plot in the extra stage was a weird choice.

I think 17 was so good that it made UM look boring and rote purely by comparison, while UM is imo actually pretty fine when compared to the wider series.

>>46655146
which version though? for me her 19 theme is the peak

>>46654988
>>46655035
It's interesting, because I think that this is where for a time at least ZUN also clearly favored a kind of overall overarching musical inspiration for all tracks for each game (like a statement of intent), i.e. SA soundtrack has tons of 19th century European classical music pointers and TD has strong influence from ambient techno vibe for each track to be easily remixed to a more stripped down, rhythm-heavy 'trance' version. You'd think it would make for a more consistent package, but not really. Well, I think SA soundtrack is great and really consistent, but I agree that same can't be said about TD.

>>46655193
I like 17 when it comes to the plot and setting and characters themselves, but there's a lot of really dud character designs (basicaly everyone but Yachie, Mayumi and Keiki) and something about the actual gameplay doesn't vibe with me at all. It's a mix of the ottermode feeling too crutchy, the game being somehow visually hard to read and the animal spirits constantly baiting me into playing recklessly and/or adding to the cognitive load by having extra bouncing, blinking, noisy shit on the screen.

As for the music, I think there's about the usual of good/meh tracks for latter Touhou games, marred by the extremely weak drums. Idolatrize World is a fantastic composition with many fan arrangements that improve upon the original on the simple merit of having drums that are not just weird FM puffs and hissess.

he spent all the drums for 始原のビート　～ Prinstine Beat

>>46628346
The indie live expo theme

Wish I never visited this thread. I had a feeling that even /jp/ could be susceptible to bad takes, but it seems that no place is perfect. Imagine saying any of his tracks are bad, or even suggest he got worse as time progressed. I feel like I am the only one who is blessed with good understanding on ZUN's music. I can understand trashing his new games or characters or art or whatever, even I admit he has some flaws, but he never lost his touch when it comes to music. Literally the only thing I can agree on is the indie expo theme is weak, but that's the limit. Especially laughable are the people who think he would sound better with better samples. Bro, it wouldn't be ZUN's music if it sounded any other way. That's what makes him so unique. And lastly, Shinreibyou haters are simply retarded, no more words needed.

>>46664017
I agree that he most definitively hasn't gotten worse with age when it comes to compositions, but I do think there are occasional duds in his immense pool of music and that the weak drums bring down the latter OSTs somewhat.

But it's nice to see someone who likes all of it. He certainly has a unique style and even with most of the stuff I don't 100% vibe I can see where he was going with it. He is extremely talented at composing stuff that sounds exactly like what it's supposed to sound like, and he's only gotten better at that with time.

>>46628346
I like most Touhou songs, but these stand out as ones I don't care for. I really don't like ZUN's current style in general.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xjzyw-Q5_A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePzB2RTXtWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXpOgqcyisw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv87-GvQlrw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQsYcoyMGe0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko3Xg_sKq0w ZUN's parts in this were pretty weak.
>>46628500
I feel like this wolf song is a better version of that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G78gVVd4qY

>>46655198
Aren't they exactly the same?

>>46664017
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Touhou music. The counterpoint is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of music theory most of the themes will go over a typical listener's head. There's also ZUN's neo-traditionalist outlook, which is deftly woven into his compositions and the associated writing - his personal philosophy draws heavily from the Nihon Shoki, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of his melodies, to realize that they're not just catchy- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Touhou music truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the playfulness in the eastern story leitmotiv or the bad apple ostinato which itself is a cryptic reference to Carroll's Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as the Hakurei Kannushi's genius flows into their ears. What fools... how I pity them.

>>46664726
didn't they arrange each other's theme? so the ZUN part is the undertale shit and the UN Owen part is Toby Fox? I didn't even listen to it and every time I think that I should, I immediately can't find the energy

>>46665005
Correct. You have Toby putting his all into Flandre's theme, making it loud and full and energetic. Then for some reason you have ZUN doing the bare minimum.

>>46665027
>Then for some reason you have ZUN doing the bare minimum.
This sounds a bit weird, do you think ZUN has something against Toby Fox?

>>46664726
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXpOgqcyisw
HSiFS tracks piss me off because if the instrumentation was just a little bit better they'd be great but as they are they're quite obnoxious because of that shitty saxophone soundfont.

>>46664726
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQsYcoyMGe0
Chimatan...

Seihou 1 name register theme is really "eeh?" if that counts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtO91rM34vU
Maybe somebody could rap over this?

>>46665582
Jesus it's actually fucking great. Well, that's only expected from ZUN-shi. He is so great at writing mood-setters. Stop proving that he really has not a single bad track, it's insane. But not as insane as people here who claim otherwise.

>>46630631
I like this

>>46665582
It's a bit odd but I actually like it.

>>46643102
Give your opinion you fuckers

>>46665120
No, it's just his style nowadays. He doesn't go all-out anymore.
>>46665306
The saxophone is fine in my opinion, it's those awful drums and guitar he thinks sound so good.

>>46643102
>>46665697
I like it. It's a nice little theme. The trill gives it an oriental feel.

I feel like the first two games have a much weaker soundtrack in general than the rest of the 98 and forward titles

>>46665761
I like th02 soundtrack MIDI version

>>46665761
this but the opposite

>>46665719
Great drums and guitar you dumbfuck. Please please PLEASE clean your ears.
The thing is, why would you want him to make music conventionally better sounding? I like these precise samples because it filters plebs who think everything should sound like the thing they are used to, sorry for lack of better examples. The electric guitar slander is what irks me the most. It sounds perfectly fine, gritty and original. I am glad ZUN doesn't listen to public opinion too much, his craft unsoiled by illiterate folk.

>>46665804
>great drums
they're the same drums soundcloud rappers use

>>46665804
t. ZUN

>>46664017
No amount of the usual "Akshully, ZUN is still great, he's just got a mature and more experimental style, you just can't appreciate him because you don't have proper music education" drivel is going to change the fact that I would love every single old track of his, while, starting from TD, there's an ever increasing number of tracks that are just bad and make me grimace.
And yes, it did start with TD: as soon as I heard Ghost Lead, I knew something was wrong, because ZUN had never composed something that awful in a previous Windows mainline game. Before, his worst was just "okay".

>>46665719
I don't know about drums but the guitar can also fuck off.

>>46665878
Ghost lead is catchy.

https://twitter.com/korindo/status/1782778168782602485
No matter what you say, ZUN always loves his music.

It feels like there's no real solid climaxes anymore.

>>46665956
Can we make a list of what exactly makes the music of current games so bad?

I dislike the electric guitar from some themes of TH16. I don't hate it, but I feel like its out of place.

I really want to like Hecatia and her theme but it sounds like circus music for half the song.

https://youtu.be/YikgHSnYiFE

>>46666131
what your image is moving how you did that

I love Touhou music in small doses, but the repetitive nature of ZUN's songwriting and his tendency to go for his cliches in every single song (>>46635691, Picardy thirds, the ZUNsoft arpeggio) really wear down on me, so ZUN's music is more of an occasional treat. I actually appreciate his more experimental choices of timbres and inspirations, but those songwriting cliches do make a lot of this music really predictable in the long run.

>>46665997
>out of place
That's his entire music style right now. The whole point of Touhou is that it's set in a time capsule of 1800s Japan. The general aesthetic of the series was carefully constructed around this, so why would ZUN move away from faux-orchestra in favor of electronic?
His comment for this song says that he tried giving it an autumn-like feeling, but other than the oboe it just sounds like music you'd hear at a low-budget daytime rave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9xdMzUTBsw

>>46666893
I maintain that it's the instrumentation. Marasy can make anything sound good but piano renditions of HSiFS sound pretty solid then you listen to the real tracks and it's like "what happened here".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg1GNxSa6j0&t=186s

>>46667913
Yeah, that "remixes are always better than the original songs" meme is starting to make sense. Marasy is incredible.

>>46643102
Honestly expected this to appear when I saw the thread since it sounds like the sort of old game ost others would tell me to turn down.
But I'm a massive retrofag so I still like it even if it sounds pretty different from HRtP style.
>>46665761
First two games are pretty unique, they feel pretty melancholic and dark. There's a big style change from SoEW to PoDD.
>>46665582
I miss score entry themes honestly and really like Seihou ost in general. Might be my favorite ZUNost[/spoiler
idk, in general I agree with modern 2hu ost not being that good, but it might be due to getting used to 2hu music, being a nostalfag and not listening less the newer songs(not giving them much of a "chance") and going instead back to the old ones.

i don’t know if his instruments are horrible now or if he doesn’t bother doing any mastering at all but every track post-15 sounds cacophonous with how none of the instruments sound good together or form a cohesive song at all. it sounds like a child playing around in garageband. it was made especially clear when he remastered PCB and UFO tracks and essentially made worse versions of them. horrible what he did to charming domination

>>46665761
I think touhou 1 has the best pc98 ost, these are my favorites:
https://youtu.be/i5QfOOtp31I
https://youtu.be/SzOUqOCRXOs
https://youtu.be/x21zqGC4mOc
https://youtu.be/bzt87vI6YT0
touhou 2 isnt that great but I like very much the extra boss theme
https://youtu.be/TfFd1xLMbEA

>>46669300
For Nazrin's theme, he at least kept all the instruments and changed only some of them. For Ran's he took his old midi and slapped some piano, strings, bass, and drums over it and called it a day. So many extra instruments omitted.

>>46669421
>touhou 2 isnt that great but I like very much the extra boss theme
Do you know about the MIDI version? Every single track comes out great, and the compositions have some differences with the FM version.

>>46673399
>he took his old midi
he expressly didn't, actually. He said that he didn't have it, so he had to remake it from scratch (how the fuck he lost it when he can just extract it from the game file was not explained)

>>46674488
He lost The Game
And so did you

>>46669300
>every track
are you only talking about boss theme?

>>46674488
>Lose game files
>Finds a site hosting downloads
>Downloads it
>Sends lawyers to shut it down
>Refuses to elaborate

>>46674474
yes I know, I mentioned the extra boss theme because I think it is the one that is better in the original form

>>46674491

>>46674488
I heard that he lost the source code for Touhou 6 to 9, dont know if it is true

>>46675474
9’s on steam (albeit with revamped netcode i believe?) so it should just be 6-8 lost to time

>>46634129
Without a doubt, Izanagi Object.

>>46665761
How can one person be so flat-out wrong? Highly Responsive to Prayers and Story of Eastern Wonderland are full of hidden gems. I suppose I could see one not liking it if dark music wasn't their fancy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlp7WLGJZ9E (Strange Oriental Discourse)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_LJcQfaOD0 (Magic Mirror - Hell)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeMrru0Ghoc (The Legend of Kage)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzt87vI6YT0 (Now, die for the debt you have accumulated)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzYNAMeHjsg (Iris)
As for Highly Responsive to Prayers, for some of the themes, the MS music room version is far better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcvTjFo2T8I (Angel's Legend)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Vtd_uyO1uY (Civilization of Magic)
You can't just listen to World of Empty Dreams and tell me that they are weaker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8di6az9BBQ (End of Daylight)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oluGWBK8Bk8 (World of Empty Dreams)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8N3XswjEuI (Power of Darkness)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glGtklFzZ2k (Complete Darkness)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5j6uIIybXA (Extra Love)
If anything, HRtP and SoEW are completely overlooked because of their rough exterior. But, after SoEW, the music does trend towards being dreamy rather than dark and melancholic.

>>46655146
>>46655198
Not the og anon, but both "Memento of the Avaricious Beast" and "Memento of All Organisms" are my top 2 tracks from 16 onwards, and proof he's still got it when he actually tries.

>>46675958
patrician

Rumias theme sucks and Im tired of pretending it doesnt.

>>46675958
>But, after SoEW, the music does trend towards being dreamy rather than dark and melancholic
Thats something that I liked about the first 2 games, and thats why I love Eternal Shrine Maiden so much, its so sad and melancholic yet fits Reimu so well, I really hate that its so underused.

Of older ZUN his worst track is Gensokyo, Past and Present ~ Flower Land. It's not close either, that track fucking SUCKS.

>>46676562
>Rumias theme sucks and Im tired of pretending it doesnt.
Is the most nostalgic song for me, together with her stage theme

>>46674488
>he expressly didn't, actually. He said that he didn't have it, so he had to remake it from scratch
When did he say this? I find it hard to believe when it's the same pitch and only a slightly different tempo.

Crazy how this thread is much more civil than the "favorite track" ones lol

>>46665582
Its simply but I like it

>>46676700
Its quite literally the only battle song from that game that I cant consistently remember, its so forgettable to me, I dont get all the ruckus around it.

>>46682324
It might be from Rumia herself being the only EoSD character that hasn't reappeared a bunch of times.

>>46681688
No favorites to fiercely defend here.

>>46678875
https://twitter.com/richard_effendi/status/1697602355037167890

>>46676562
>Rumias theme sucks and Im tired of pretending it doesnt.
Sou nano kaa... Do you really not like catchy bass and the whimsical flute?
Not only it's musically pleasant, it's also perfect thematically. You have an edgy synth introduction section up to 0:13, then it tries to scare you further with an insisting idiophone, humorously turning quite cute instead, before completely giving up on a coherent strategy and just going all out with the flute. This is pure youkai moe in jocular music and it's wonderful! deochi! deochi! romantic! deochi moe!!!

>>46686159
Huh, interesting. I wouldn't have known that.
Though I will say there's a chance he's talking about the project files and not the songs themselves. Like, you know how Tsukasa's theme is the same as Th18 but with different drums? He just went into the project file and changed them. He likely took the midi for Ran's stage theme and started a new project.

I can't say I really "dislike" any of ZUN's musical work, but maybe that's because I haven't heard all of it yet. Some songs I definitely like better than others, like most of MoF's and IN's soundtracks. Yet I disagree with others here about the newer soundtracks for the games. I really like HSiFS and WBaWC sound tracks, they are among my favorites. I like that ZUN is branching out to more experimental styles, as long as he doesn't make a hip-hop or rap style or something ridiculous I think he'll be great. Some songs in EoSD are a bit overrated even if they are still good, with U.N. Owen being the biggest culprit of this. Good song but in the fanbase done to death and overrated. Beloved Tomboyish Daughter and Septette for the Dead Princess are just better off of the same sound track. Frankly, most of the other songs in 6 are better than U.N. in my opinion. My favorite songs are Youkai Mountain ~ Mysterious Mountain and Fall of Fall ~ Autumnal Waterfall. Every time I listen to new songs from the games and fan remixes, I find more I like. I just wish I didn't suck at the games with my paltry 2-3 games 1cced (10, 17, 19)

>>46664726
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQsYcoyMGe0
Hold the fuckin phone what you mean? This is like the best track in this game. It's damn great. I especially like the piano. Zun's recent tracks that have had a decent piano focus have all been my favorite tracks from him.

>>46689463
The piano is good of course, the piano is always good and probably always will be good. The main issue I have with it is that it sounds like an unfinished amateur cover of Idolatrize World. The whole thing is empty-sounding, like ZUN forgot to put anything in the background. Melodically, it sounds generally aimless except for the climax, which I didn't even know WAS the climax at first until the piano kicked in thanks to the aforementioned emptiness. It was a huge disappointment after how good Keiki's theme was, especially since I liked it so much more than Okina's and Junko's.
The icing on the cake is that she's the first Windows final boss since Remilia to not slow the game down when she explodes. It's the only time I thought "That was it?" after clearing a game.

>>46690209
>first Windows final boss since Remilia to not slow the game down when she explodes
Keiki also does that

>>46690240
Odd, I just checked and you're right. Maybe I'm just misremembering because I liked her fight more.

entire ddc soundtrack

>>46699481
Only stage 1 and 3 are weak.

I second the decline started with TD. True Administrator is an absolute nothing of a song.

>>46699481
Take that back. Stage 4 and Ex are awesome

>>46704216
someone else appreciates Thunderclouds of Magical Power? It's my favorite extra stage theme

Love the game itself, probably in my Top 3 gameplay wise, but MS' soundtrack is not ZUN's best. It's still pretty good, has a few great songs but a lot of the song is kind of meh. It took the SC-88 revisit to make Mai's song feel complete, later stage themes are pretty great but there's a lot of whatever.
MS aside his weakest soundtrack is probably EoSD? Feels like just a video game OST and not Touhou to me, it just goes through the motions, and EoSD's incredibly entry level inspirations lead to ZUN hardly ever being challenged in his composition. It's competent but damn is it boring.
Also while the "Stage 6 is just the Final Boss with anticipation of the big bad storytelling attached to it" can give good songs I do find the process in itself rather boring and lazy. Not every Stage 6 boss has the context to make a Fires of Hokkai tier song but again, the appeal with ZUN to me is seeing how he translates complex character traits into a song.

>>46704404
hey me too

>>46704404
Stupidly good song.

>>46704523
I understand about MS but not really about EoSD. It's just... all-around great and fitting to the stages and the characters?

>>46709377
Is that a question?

>>46700868
I actually like it, one of the very few ZUN tracks where the sampled distorted guitars actually work

>>46713098
You can elaborate on why you think the EoSD soundtrack is boring if you want. But you don't have to.
If I understand your point, it is that ZUN was playing it too safe.

>>46718264
That wasn't me, but i'll give a brief answer. I don't think EoSD's setting & characters often challenged ZUN as a compositor. With all the context of a character like her, Remilia's theme almost writes itself. It's not too interesting. I guess you could say it's playing it safe but i'd moreso call it make do with the cards in your deck.
Septette is still a very enjoyable song, and sometimes the simplest things are the nicest, I wouldn't blame anyone for loving it. If you couldn't decipher it from the first post, I like ZUN's songs as an exercice in musical literacy: Trying to understand what led to a song sounding like it did contributes to my enjoyment of a song.

16 onwards for me, pretty unremarkable and boring except a few from 18 (eg: Chimata's theme). TD's tracks are by far the worst from 2nd gen.

>>46722188
Desire Drive reigns supreme, but the rest of the soundtrack is pretty weak, i agree.

Re-listening the whole UM ost today, still didn't like 'em

>>46727170
That's okay. But, which game ost do you like the most?

Come to think of it, ZUN's post-MS FM music is really weak. Those FM tracks from PMiSS and SSiB are subpar overall.
It's not fair. Akyuun deserved better.

I'm not a big fan of apparitions stalk the night

Yuyukos theme in TD is truly awful

>>46733625
That's likely because he tried making them with his windows mindset instead of treating them like actual pc98 songs.

>>46733836
That one is a favorite of mine. I could see myself dancing to that at a rave.

>>46734221
This.

Not totally on topic but dear lord what would I give for a physical double CD/double LP version of Perfect Cherry Blossom soundtrack

new album is unexpectedly good

Lunate Elf sucks.

Is this the guy you all idolize? Seriously?

>>46746451
kek what

>>46746322
explain

>>46746451
God forbid men have hobbies

I do not care for Pandemonic Planet. Half of the track is the same 4 notes over and over again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YikgHSnYiFE is the only one I can remember having to look up a version without a specific aspect.

>>46752332
I would like it more if it wasn't just an arrangement of Pristine beat.

>>46752755
Damn, sounds a bit like Jean Michel Jarre around Zoolook-era, pretty interesting

>>46746451
yeah

I keep going back and forth between liking and disliking True Administrator.

>>46755241
As it should be.

>>46755241
It has a nice climax, but as a final boss theme it's pretty lax.

>>46752766
>Jean Michel Jarre around Zoolook-era
I see we have a man of culture here.

>>46628346
I'm definitely a contrarian, as I do not enjoy 6-9 soundtracks much, and much prefer post-14 songs the best.

I genuinely think Mokou's theme is bad. It's unpleasant and only really has one melody with some nonsense piano spasms mixed in, and it's genuinely quite boring overall. The fact that it's so popular makes me feel like I'm genuinely missing something. In general I don't like the '' just do some insane piano shit '' that is prevalent in 8. Plain Asia is awful, Maiden's Capriccio is ruined by the piano. The only theme that pulls off the crazy piano is Voyage 1969, which is incredible.

I also don't like Youmu's theme at all, and it's no wonder people prefer Ancient Temple. There's something profoundly ugly and grating about Till When. But I do like many Till When remixes, but the original track is genuinely terrible.

There are some tracks that go a bit crazy with the ZUNpet to the point it's grating to the ears, and that's more prevalent overall in earlier touhou soundtracks.

From newer soundtracks Vampiric Cryptid Chupacabra is pretty horrid. But it's another song that I'm sure will sound better with remixes. There are also several songs in newer soundtracks that really start out rough, but when they build up they become really fucking good. The Oni Go to the Perpetual Mountain is a good example, I really love how it turns out in the end despite how rough it sounds at first. Starry Mountain of Tenma was my least favorite ZUN song for a while, but it grew on me eventually, and now I love it. Listening to a few good remixes definitely helped. Genuinely can't judge a ZUN song based on the first 30 seconds, you really need to let it build up.

>>46628346
Starry mountain of Tenma. In general I don't like how electronic the modern themes sounds even if they have a nice melody.
>>46734221
I was going to say fuck you but then I remembered that Night Sakura of Dead Spirits was the stage theme.

>>46746451
would someone really do that? just go on the internet and tell lies?

>>46628346
Most of the tracks past 2hu 15. They just dont sound good at all.

I really, really disliked the soundtrack from LoLK, apart from Junko's theme. Pandemonic Planet is okay in remixes, but the original one is "meh", which still puts it heads and shoulders above of other tracks from Touhou 15 - once again, apart from Pure Furies ~ Whereabouts of the Heart.

Ironically, another track I don't like much comes from my absolute, all-time favorite, Subterranean Animism. I unironically think it has the best OST of the entire Touhou series, and love Orin as a character, so it pains me to admit it, but Corpse Voyage ~ Be of Good Cheer isn't that catchy. Maybe it's because it's difficult to sound good when you interrupt Lullaby of Deserted Hell, I don't know, but I never enjoyed it. Sorry, Rin.

>>46766431
>ZUN is not into kinky merdman shit

>>46628346
That one track from Old Adam Bar used in VD for sure

>>46631959
>how unimaginably SHIIIT all HSiFS tracks are
Strongly disagree
>to the point he never recover from it as it bleeds into the future games
That only applies to half of 18 and half of 19 and it's nothing that couldn't be fixed if he polished his tracks, especially the instrumentation... also Ran's theme's super fast tempo wtf was that

>>46766431
That ladylike pose...ZUN really is one of those "spiritually lesbian" types, isn't he?

>>46762838
>I genuinely think Mokou's theme is bad. It's unpleasant and only really has one melody with some nonsense piano spasms mixed in, and it's genuinely quite boring overall. The fact that it's so popular makes me feel like I'm genuinely missing something.
Finally, somebody understands me. Junko's theme is also similar in that it's all on the wow factor but not that pleasant to listen to.

>>46762838
I love the piano bit in Reach for the Moon, but the rest I'm not so hot on.

>>46769164
The ZUNpet ruins Junko's theme for me.

>>46762838
>>46769164
Mokou's isn't my favorite but I think what makes it shine is the unrelenting tempo in the off beats in the percussion and repition of the melody which can give the illusion of it speeding up.
It adds a lot of tension in the actual fight and gives a feeling of desperation and "oh god oh fuck oh god" which is really cool in the moment as her nons get more and more batshit. This is most noticable after the piano section and it goes back to the main theme.
By itself I think it's solid but not consistently top 10 good

Pure furies I like more and it's the unison on the main melody that tickles my fancy. The first time it's played straight, second time it adds the flourishes of an additional counter line, and the 3rd time it takes out that additional melody and it's all in unison with more instruments in what I feel is a very powerful ending. I'd like it even more without the decorations just to really drive it home.
However I can understand it getting old.

>>46769008
That one that's really loud? I hate it too.
>>46769041
>also Ran's theme's super fast tempo wtf was that
He had to speed it up to make it a battle theme.

>>46769041
He doesn't spend enough time on tracks, only a few hours. I feel like things would generally be much better if the games weren't all 4-month rushjobs.

A thing to remember about most of ZUN's tracks are they feel a lot different when you're actually playing the game rather than just listening to on its own. Almost all of them become 5x better through that lens. Highlights are a lot of SA tracks, especially Satori Maiden.

The only exception I can think of is Yuyuko's TD theme, so I'll choose that.

>>46769560
It's the drums for me. Completely antiethical to Touhou's general aesthetic.

This thread has really been something, every time I get into "what is good/bad" discussions I get confirmed that Koishi is my spirit animal, as I rarely hate on things and I tend to like almost everything.
Having no brain is truly an experience.

I like the melody of Omiwa Legend and how it seems like the whole thing could fall apart at any moment (kinda like Apparitions Stalk the Night) but I REALLY don't like the electro drum samples emulating tribal/traditional drumming. It sounds like there's something wrong and it lacks an oomph to be a fitting theme for Stage 5 boss.

>>46789092
Don't worry you're not alone.

>>46796252
The whole game had a pretty low-energy soundtrack. It was pretty rough coming off UFO and its crazy good music.

>>46634186
Is there any other penis music of Touhou?

>>46802495
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3xMfbu6MzU
This one is exceptionally penisy.

>>46802495
Paradise ~ Dick Mountain
The Cock Maker of Bacharesti
Hiroari Shoots a Strange Load ~ Till When?
the list goes on...

>>46796252
Eh, stage 5 boss themes have been pretty lackluster in several entries beforehand. Though my main concern is whether Omiwa Legend really fits Futo as a character instead. Perhaps it's just fandom brainrot but Futo just isn't as elegant and mysterious as Omiwa Legend sounds to me, but perhaps I've misunderstood the character to begin with.

I personally like the electronic, less punchy vibes of modern soundtracks, and one of the positives is that it makes the more severe, aggressive tracks stand out more.

I do not like futo's theme...

>>46804516
Oh this is COCK AND BALLS music, straight up

>>46810752
>Though my main concern is whether Omiwa Legend really fits Futo as a character instead
I actually think it fits her a lot, according to canon she's supposed to have trouble adapting to current times as opposed to the other characters right?
I'm not sure what instrument the main melody is that comes in after the intro but that feels like the competent "archaic" sound as opposed to the robotic sound that seems like it's taking great effort just to "start up" or "catch up" with the other sound throughout the piece.

>>46811570
why

>>46789064
It was deliberately composed as an upbeat, faster song. Junko's purity and all that. Actually, that is why I love that song. It wants to do one thing, and it does it very well.

>>46628346
Grave of Being is honestly the worst stage 6 theme in the entire series, which is weird because MoF has an excellent track record with stage themes and just pulling off the correct vibe and sound for each stage. Grave of Being sounds like an afterthought, and it doesn't really flow naturally into Suwa Foughten Field.

>>46819508
Not really sure what that has to do with ZUNpet or drums.

I do not care whatsoever for SA stage 1 themes
Hearing them reminds me of the misery of playing SA, they herald continuous and neverending failure
Its especially bad because I think so many other things are so cool about SA; the characters, the rest of the music, the lore and the worldbuilding
I just hate playing it, the least fun touhou game I've actually tried to put time into

>>46819851
How can you say that when Into Backdoor exists?

>>46827027
Into Backdoor creates the right ambiance of an emerging boss fight against a terribly powerful foe. It's about the feeling of a game reaching it's conclusion, and it works decently enough. It's not my favorite by any means, but compared to Grave of Being, it serves it's purpose well enough, and coupled with the environment graphics of HSiFS stage 6, it works just fine.

Grave of Being is so cool...

>>46830992
Proof?

>>46628346
I guess if I had to pick one it would be Ghost Lead, for not being Border of Life
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l7jAAORxZs

This is the kind of crappy theme you get when you're demoted all the way from Stage 6 to Stage 1.

>>46819851
I like Grave of Being, it's very energetic and upbeat as you approach Kanako on the summit, like your triumphant entrance after ascending through a mountain of bullshit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3OcEr8SVqE

I'm going to go out on a limb, I did not like Suwa Foughten Field.
The first 11 seconds of the song are so fucking good. I love everything about it. It's constantly playing in my head, especially the syncopation on the drums.
Everything after that is so fucking boring. It's slow, it's too repetitive, and it's not energetic to me.

>>46850746
This reminds me of a comment on YouTube that said September Pumpkin fixed it.

>>46850746
I can see your point and I respect your honesty but nah, Suwa Foughten Field is legendary to me. But I appreciate slower songs in general.