/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Who cares?

People are arbitrary and annoying. Shocking news.

What a faggot.

Who gives a shit.

R U 4 REAL?

Some people are hipsters. What else is new?

I'm going to post a picture of Moogy every time you mention him.

I want to learn Japanese so I can be as cool as Moogy-dono.

what makes this funny is that he is the mastermind behind tlwiki lol

He lowered his rating of fate/stay night after it got translated

Who cares? Moogy hasn't been relevant for quite a while.

>>9433986
It's not even on his VNDB account anymore.

>>9433976
holy shit what a faggot

Moogy is simply a different existence from us.


He's a genius and we can never truly understand the minds of the greats.

>>9433956
I thought every one that knows Japanese thinks like this. I'd never waste my time playing localized shit.

>>9434002
I don't.

>>9433956
I think every one that knows Japanese thinks like this. I'd never waste my time playing localized shit that I gain no wisdom from.

>>9433999

It's true, I just finished Tsundere 1 and Tsukiakari no Raspberry. I've never emptied so much nutjuice in my life. It must be the fact that it's only in Japanese.

b-but... he's right.
I'm sorry everyone.

Translations take a long time and they're often bad or sloppy. They're very liberal with the translations sometimes and they just take too many artistic liberties. I don't want to hear their bad westernized versions of what was actually said. It ruins everything.

Also, the selection is limited. There's not enough genre diversity when compared to the untranslated VN selection. It's like if you only ever translated English Drama/Horror novels and you leave out every other genre. You're missing out.

>>9434010
I don't, but that's not the point. Of course you'll prefer to play raw novels because of many reasons including the one you mentioned, but what makes Moogy's post so stupid is how he won't even play the raw novel simply because a translation exists.

>>9434010
>>9434028
You guys are dumb and misunderstanding what he wrote.

>>9434028
so explain it >>9433986

>>9434028

There's also the fact that people will translate the literal meaning, but not the feel of the sentence. Some characters use rough language that doesn't translate back into english well.

You really start noticing how backwards the translations are when you play a Translated game with JP VAs

Moogy is an insufferable hipster, but it is true that virtually every VN (or anime) translation I've ever seen has been junk. Some worse than others.

"The world of anime blogging is woefully over-saturated, filled to the brim with an endless knaves’ gallery of blowhards pontificating at length about the latest trends and their newest obsessions. Perhaps comically, as the vast majority of these bloggers experience anime through subtitles, their opinions must be disregarded entirely, for: I no longer consider translations an acceptable basis upon which to evaluate fiction, at least in the otaku realm. My blog contained a great deal of posts based upon the subtitled versions of anime and the translated versions of eroge – I am afraid I can no longer consider these posts as having stated anything meaningful. Translation, or at least the woeful standard of translation employed by fansubbers and fan translators, produces mirages and nothing more – its fruits are merely hazy reinterpretations of the original works.

"There is still a dearth of eroge reviews and analyses written in English. Given as there is also a dearth of eroge representation in English and my statement in the above point, I suppose such misguided attempts to fill this gap can and should be seen as nothing more than masturbation. That said, masturbation is none too easy an inclination to discard."

>>9434010
>>9434028
Except he's not saying that translations are worse. He is saying a translation negatively affects the original work. At best you could call him illogical.

Translations suck because they're done by a bunch of amateur weeaboos who only do it for internet ego boosts. The people who translate these games probably wear panda hots and "glomp" each other while they're doing it.

These are the people you trust to translate your games for you? It's one thing to play a translated game that has been professionally translated, but not when it's translated by some sperglord.

Same reason why indie games suck. Corporations do their job because it's their job. They don't stop working if somebody says a mean word to them. Fan translators and indie game devs are just cunts and the amount of work they do is directly related to how much you suck their dicks and praise them.

Wow, I totally forgot about this hot the art was in this.

almost as deviant as aaeru-sama. almost.

>>9434098
God damn, all those logical fallacies.

This is the same guy that gave cross channel a vote of 8 when it got a translation but has since changed his mind and decided it is the masterpiece of the eroge industry.

>>9434110
It's a 10 now.

>>9434098
Why use so many words when you are just saying "translations are automatically all shit because I don't like a few people who translate"?

>>9434089

>Translation, or at least the woeful standard of translation employed by fansubbers and fan translators, produces mirages and nothing more – its fruits are merely hazy reinterpretations of the original works

That's actually completely true though. I don't follow this shit enough to know who moogy is or whatever, but that's true.

He's just saying it in a way that makes it sound like he has a japanese man's penis stuck in his ear while wearing a monocle and smoking a cigar.

Fansubs are released almost immediately after it airs in Japan. Do you really think they have any time for quality translations? It's one step above machine translations. You will understand the story, but anything past that is lost and the characters often sound a lot more emotionless than they really are.

>>9434126

I gotta sound like a professional cuz I run a blog

check out my sat vocab son

>>9434044
>>9434048
>>9434096
Looks like I just read the first line of his post, sorry about that. I still partly agree on his reasoning on him avoiding VNs that has been translated. I tend do this alot aswell.

Probably something about me having have a superiority complex and not wanting to read something that I know has been read by the filthy english only peasants that are too lazy to learn Japanese.

>>9434142
Says the autist that types "alot"

>>9434135
Then again it's not like the ````````official""" subs like crunchyroll fare any better.

And if they did rewrite as much as you say then there should've been immense discrepancies among fans of shows that get subbed by 3 different groups at the same time.
Yet they surprisingly match quite well.

>>9434149
Sorry my native language is not English.

>>9434158
That's more because there are usually two groups that take directly from CR and one group that actually translates it but uses CR as a guide. There really isn't that much work going into most fansubs.

>>9434126

>I don't like a few people who translate

I don't like anyone who fan translates, that's the whole point.

Look at what any fan translator is doing. They are throwing away their own time to spend hours translating products so that they can release it for free to people who don't understand the language. Why are they doing this? What's their motivation?

There are only two possible answers. Either they're these amazing altruistic paragons of virtue that will sacrifice their lives so other people can enjoy Japanese entertainment or they're a bunch of ego-tripping cunts that get off on all of the attention, praise, and dick sucking that people give them.

Which one sounds more likely?

I can respect someone who translates because he's getting paid, he's just doing his job. I can't respect someone who poorly translates shit because nobody is going to know any better unless they learn Japanese, in which case they wouldn't need translations, and either way they get their ego stroked.

>>9434135
Do you seriously believe that anime needs to have quality translations. Its not a work of literature for gods sakes, its just a kids cartoon.

>filthy english only peasants that are too lazy to learn Japanese
>filthy english only peasants that are too lazy to learn Japanese
>filthy english only peasants that are too lazy to learn Japanese

I suffer from the same exact damn thing

>>9434171
The first isn't as unlikely as you make it sound. People like to share nice things with others. Every now and then people spend their own money on stuff and anonymously upload it to the internet. Same deal.

>>9434172

Do you seriously believe that visual novels needs to have quality translations. Its not work of literature for god sakes, its just a power point presentation with porn.

Why is it that whenever somebody learns Japanese, they suddenly turn into a obnoxious hipster faggot like Moogy.

>>9434182
You obviously have never read a romeo tanaka vn in japanese, faggot.

>>9434183
ego

>>9434183
It gives spergs more motivation to learn it themselves.

>>9434183
Because you suddenly realize how you're finally free of translations and all the drama. You don't want to be reminded by reading translations ever again.

>>9434183
Vocal minority

Seems like it's mostly people who finally learned a second language.

>>9434190

You obviously have never watched a hyouka anime in English, faggot.

>>9434171

Many people join translation projects to help with their learning. But believe it or not, but people always do things for exchange or some benefit that's not just money. Whether it's praise, sex, friendship, debt. That's human nature.

Someone is going to have to suck some cock or nothing would get translated. And the community as a whole would die off. Not that this is in any danger of happening at all. But just as an example.

>>9434198
>Free of all the drama
>So you create some yourself

This is the same guy that is translating Trample on Scatthen, lets all pirate it when it comes out and nitpick at his translations for a change.

>>9434158

>Yet they surprisingly match quite well.

Of course it matches well. You take the dialog in its original language and you look for the closest English equivalent, it's the easiest and fastest way to do it. They'll all end up sounding pretty much identical. This is fine if you just want to get the story, but you lose the emotion and some of the less vital details.

For example, look at English adjectives and certain interchangeable English words. Most of the time you don't need them to get the point across, but they're great for giving more depth to the story.

>The hairy and obese man waddled across the street and stared obscenely at a nearby woman.
>The man walked across the street and stared at a nearby woman.

Both sentences get the point across, but the first sentence gives more detail to the story. Either way you understand what's going on, but the first one is more descriptive. Same problem with translations, either it sounds robotic (sentence two) or it's liberally translated and sounds ridiculous because you can never perfectly translate something, it's always either going to sound robotic or shitty.

Most anime subs for example sound robotic in comparison to what it sounds like if you didn't need the translation. It's bare-bones, it gets the point across, but it lacks the fine details because unless you start liberally translating then there's no directly equivalent way to translate the full meaning of the message and even then you just get a westernized bastardization.

>>9434235

why bother? We just need a walkthough so one can scroll through to the sex scene for the girl we might like on the box art.

I for one, don't mind translations. I read the translated version of G-senjou no Maou and I derived more enjoyment of it than I saw I would have have I read it normally. I like the spark of like some translators add. I may read a certain line in a normal, somewhat literal fashion but the translator would add a whole other layer to what's being said. I like that. I also read Remember11 in English, but in fairness I did buy its PSP version about a year or so later.

Of course, I do care about the original meaning of what the writer intended of course, but we've to look at these things objectively. In the Penguin Classics edition of Les Mis, the translator says that he had to leave out some of what Hugo wrote because shit literally did not make sense in English. And do you've people in English who are fluent in French complain about that? No, you don't.

While I feel Moogy's stance on VNs is somewhat silly, he is a bit of a weeb. He recently said that Japanese is a better language than English and it's something I couldn't help but shake my head at.

>>9434244
Your examples are terrible.

As expected of Moefags, they ruined fansubbing.

Back in the good old 1920s you had to watch unsubbed mute movies and guess what the hell the characters were saying by lip reading.

Why can't you spend 5 years of your life studying 8 hours everyday to crunch 3000 moonrunes just to be able to read children literature like I did. What's wrong with you.

>>9434244
>robotic (sentence two)
I actually have no idea what the fuck you believe you're talking about.

Did anybody manage to screencap his post on vndb where he claims that Forest should only be read by "eroge experts".

>>9434181
This. I even hear of people (shocking news!) donating their time at senior centers, helping with children, working with the handicapped, or just plain enjoying doing things for friends.

>>9434252
People complain about translations of other languages all the time, dude. What are you even talking about?

>>9434244

>Two years of semen made a glopping sound as it flowed endlessly into her
>キターーー！

The translation communities shouldn't even need to exist. Every person that has ever enjoyed a VN has more than enough free time to learn multiple languages.

You're just learning a language, this is simple shit. If you took all of the time and energy that you spent talking and arguing about this on /jp/ then you would have had more than enough time to learn Japanese. Everyone who even has a moderate interest in Japanese entertainment should do this simply because learning is good for you and it's fun. /jp/ in particular should especially do this because maybe you'd stop being so goddamn depressed all the time if you actually worked hard and accomplished a single goal that requires more effort than jerking yourself off.

>>9434316
>accomplished a single goal that requires more effort than jerking yourself off.
But that's exactly what you want me to do

>>9434316
Agreed. Moot should implement kanji captcha.

>>9434316
I've never put an ounce of effort into anything in life, why would I start now?

>>9434268
This is true.

It is also true that the majority (note: there are exceptions) of works, be it movie, book, game, whatever are better in the original version.

>>9434337
there is nice untranslated porn waiting for you on the other side

>>9434347
AGTH.

>>9434351
Quality.

>>9434351
using AGTH makes the girls feel like robots who speak in fragmented sentences, not sexy at all.

>>9434316
But I've accomplished lots of things and still feel depressed all the time, because they have ultimately not improved my overall standing in life. Learning the language of some island language with a terrifying work culture so I can expand my entertainment beyond what is already more than enough to occupy my time for the foreseeable future is liable to typify that.

>>9434355
That kind of sounds normal.

>>9434355
But you just described nihongo.

>>9434351
I still don't know what a Red Snapper is and why it gets wet.

>>9434355
I understand most of the spoken dialogue in nukiges anyway, it's all the same shit. AGTH just makes up for the rest of the text that I'm far too lazy to bother with.

/jp/ = Untranslated VN discussion
/vg/ = Translated VN discussion

This is how it should be, but it's not like this because the majority of you won't do a little work that will make you 100x happier than you currently are. I'm not even telling you to get off your ass and do some work. Keep sitting on your ass, just minimize this and now open anki.

A distinction needs to be made. What is the difference between /vg/ and /jp/ VN discussion if both of us are talking about shitty translated games? It's redundant. /vg/ is filled with normals. /jp/ is not. They have plenty of excuses for not learning Japanese because they're probably too busy wasting their time with retarded nonsense like trying to get a girlfriend, but none of you have that excuse.

Get on it and hurry up. I'm sick of not being able to talk about the good games with you because you're all fucking illiterate.

>>9434372
>/vg/ is filled with normals. /jp/ is not.
Ha.

>>9434372
People are lazy. If I could get some sweet medication that improved concentration , I'd do it.

>>9434098
Remember that, at least, fan translators don't censor their games, unlike indie and "professional" corps.

>>9434372

/jp/ will never talk about TsunDere or any Tinklebell stuff because it's untranslated.

>>9434372
Sounds like a lot of work to me dude.

>>9434372
But it takes a lot of work and dedication. I can hardly finish a one-hour project, where the heck am I supposed to find the energy to learn a whole language?

Only a normalfag could pull off such a feat.

>>9434372
But the only thing /jp/ is talking about is the latest NTR eroge. Doesn't seem worth the effort.

>>9434316
Because I suck at learning languages. You don't hear me saying "Every person that has ever enjoyed the fruits of modern industry has more than enough free time to learn engineering". Because you fucking suck at differential equations and I know it.

>>9434372
Thanks, I'd rather learn something cool like programming or drawing than scroll through words words words and cheaply done porn.

>>9434372
I actually think a lot of people are starting to learn Japanese these days, evidenced by the many Japanese threads we get, but its just that they're doing it all wrong. They believe they have to memorize something like 2000+ kanji (or some other retarded arbitrary number) to ever touch a vn when in reality you don't need any kanji at all, just an understanding of basic grammar to understand most vns.

Take it from me, I knew next to no kanji when I started reading eroge a year ago and I've picked up an enormous vocabulary just from looking up shit I don't know.

Basically, stop doing your goddamn kanji drills you guys that shit is useless and sounds depressing as fuck.

>>9434414
Why on earth would I learn only a tiny bit of the language just so I can read poorly written garbage?

>>9434361

>because they have ultimately not improved my overall standing in life

Improved your overall standing in life?

Don't tell me that you've spent all this time on /jp/ and you still give a shit about your social status and wealth? Come on. This is simple. This even simpler than learning Japanese, this is the kind of thing retarded children should understand.

Your standing in life is determined by how happy you feel and how happy you feel is determined by doing things that make you happy and accomplishing SUBJECTIVE GOALS. Goals that you make up because they matter to you. Goals like LEARNING JAPANESE SO YOU CAN TALK TO ME ABOUT THE NEW GAMES YOU'RE NOW ABLE TO PLAY. Learn it.

Don't be a fucking normal. Thinking like that is retarded. If you like playing this shit and you enjoy it then you're overall life standing is pretty damn good, but it would get a whole lot better if you started learning Japanese.

>>9434372
It's because they aren't really fans of the medium. If someone seriously wanted to play untranslated game X, then they would put the effort into learning the language so they could read it. But the peasants don't really care about untranslated game x, despite how they may act towards it (eg I've been waiting X years for this game to be translated! I want it so bad!). So they'd rather just wait for some dude to provide an inferior, yet readable version.

>>9434423
why the fuck would you even learn Japanese other than to read eroge.

So many excuses not to do something, /jp/ sure is an expert on the craft.

>>9434436
they wouldn't be on /jp/ otherwise.

>>9434432
Really? You must have some awfully narrow interests.

Japanese really is a shit language, and if it wasn't for Kanji your elitist arguments would actually work.

Stop treating this as if it was easy.

>>9434446
the only other thing I can think of is light novels, but feel free to share your diverse interests, normal.

>>9434414
I agree. I didn't learn English word by word, I learned some grammar and THEN I started to look up every word that I didn't know while browsing 4chan and playing games. You guys should do the same thing, take it from a truNEET who learned a bit of English this way.

>>9434458
It's not not easy. It's just a lot of effort.

>>9434458
It is easy. I had a much easier time with Japanese than I did with shit languages like French. And the difficulty of kanji is grossly over-exaggerated.

>>9434400

>where the heck am I supposed to find the energy to learn a whole language?

It requires no more energy than posting on /jp/.

You start learning it, maybe you turn on some music, and you just keep learning it. You're not lifting shit or running, it requires as much energy as posting on /jp/.

This is what routines are for. You setup a bit of your day for learning this shit and you do it at that time each day whether you feel like doing it or not. Eventually you will just get used to it, it will become part of your daily routine and then you will feel shitty if you don't do it.

If none of that works then get some fucking pills.
Actually, start learning, then get the pills. You'll probably even end up procrastinating on going out to get the pills if you do that first, so start learning first then get the pills if you need them.

No more excuses. Whether it's through a routine or getting tweaked out on amphetamines then you will have the dedication to get this shit done.

>>9434468 this

It took me a year to reach a sufficent level of Japanese to be able to play VNs without much help.

Then again, I studied alot.

>>9434477
Goddamn, a lot*

>>9434481
Why are you telling people to become zombies just so they can do something they obviously aren't really interested in in the first place?

I've been wondering, if Kanji has multiple readings how do talkaloids work? Or is that only for names?

What about the phonetic readings from Google Language Tools, how inaccurate are them?

>>9434465

That's pretty much how I am learning Japanese, and it's a pretty damn good way too.

I learned Hiragana and Katakana, while I learned Japanese sentence structure, then I learned that handy song for morphing verbs in Japanese. Then I just watch anime, look at the mangaka on twitter I follow, read manga with furigana (at first) and play VNs and look up words I don't know. Now I can pretty much get the jist of what everyone is saying in Japanese, regardless of any subs. After like 2 months. And most of the Kanji I know, were memorized on accident.

Kanji will probably be the last thing I learn considering I can type in Japanese, somewhat talk in Japanese, and it automatically converts things to kanji for me.

I think with today's tools it's incredibly easy to learn Japanese, if you do it right.

>>9434490
>talkaloids
What.

>>9434487

Zombies? What are you talking about?

Either way though, they want to learn this. It's just typical constant procrastination. Plenty of people are interested in learning things, but they constantly make up excuses and procrastinate. They will just stagnate in self-pity and depression, so that's why you have to start kicking them in the ass until they just do it and realize that it wasn't so bad after all.

Everyone lacks motivation sometimes, but that doesn't mean they're not interested. They're just lethargic. That's what happens when you spend long periods of time consuming entertainment and never doing anything which requires effort, you become sluggish and lethargic. Like those fat dogs that sleep all day and then just stare outside and yawn when you open the door.

>>9434495
Ya, its incredibly irritating when you hear that one retard who whines about how he has to drill kanji cards for 5 hours tomorrow. Learning Japanese should be a fun experience, not a tour through hell.

>>9434135
>That's actually completely true though
It can vary hugely, though. On one end you have Hadena's HUEHUEHUE shitsubs that are barely in English and Commie's "this is going on facebook" idiocy, but on the other end you have groups like Kotonoha and individuals like Vale doing better TL work than people that do it for a living.

>>9434519

Yea, you will never actually want to learn Japanese unless you see immediate gains. I started with all the things I wanted to do, first. I learned Kana, and I could read Japanese with Rikaikun by hovering over the kanji. So I was motivated to continue. I learned Vocab and I got excited every time I recognized a word. When I learned verb morphing, I could morph and unmorph verbs, and practice morphing others. And actually write sentences in Japanese, and type comments to Japanese people, and be understood.

By the time you have to learn Kanji. Which you really only need to read signs, literature, etc. You are too late to quite, and you probably already learned like 200 or so of the most common ones along the way. You actually don't even know how to write them at all. Just read and type them. You can learn the proper writing order after you're done, since it is not integral to learning the language.

>>9434372
Everything you said is just really dumb.

>>9434468
It's easier than 3 out of the 4 other languages I know. Try german; it's much harder.

>>9434372
Everything you said is just really dumb.

>>9434458
It's easier than 3 out of the 4 other languages I know. Try german; it's much harder.

>>9434535
> Commie's "this is going on facebook" idiocy
Editing thermometer readings to Fahrenheit and frequently failing to keep to any sort of schedule, and then claiming it is trolling, is clearly top quality subbing.

>>9434544
>You can learn the proper writing order after you're done, since it is not integral to learning the language.
Even the writing order is easy if you learn the radicals because once you figure out which radicals compose the kanji in question and the order in which you're supposed to draw them you can infer the stroke order for pretty much any kanji.

>>9434547
>Try german; it's much harder.
You thought so? Huh. German came really easy to me but I'm having a bitch of a time with Japanese because every goddamn place online that looks half-decent for learning kanji has an attitude of "NO LEARNING THEM LIKE THE TEXTBOOKS SAYS WON'T GET YOU ANYWHERE" and that's been irking me considerably because I've found that I consistently learn the best from that format.

>>9434557
Ah, people that watch subs deserve to be trolled anyway. You'll always be getting an inferior version to the original regardless.

>>9434420
Amazingly, I can rank social status low (and even though I have one or two reasonably expensive areas of interest, therefore wealth still relatively low) and still have some goals beyond marginally more free choice in entertainment. In fact, I've accomplished things that would theoretically improve my social status and wealth, but they don't really do fuck all to make me feel better about things, because grinding an 8 hour shit job is grinding an 8 hour shit job at both $25,000 or $50,000 a year.

I mean I'll probably at least attempt do it, but only because it's a relatively short term low risk goal compared to, and could be considered a necessary condition for some of things that I'd consider a hell of a lot more of a meaningful accomplishment.

>>9434490
A hell of a lot more accurate then the translation, but enough to not be sure.

>>9434553

German here. I can actually write English better than German. It's pretty ass as language, but if you want to be pretentious and act like using fancy words and sentences makes you intelligent, then it's pretty amazing.

Fucking Goethe's Faust man.

>>9434574

Have you tried reading Heisig's book? Kanjidamage isn't for everyone, people learn differently, but I really like Heisig's method. Since you learn like 5 radicals, and like 10 kanji to go with that radical.

I'm too busy learning korean to study japanese. I wonder what the korean translation scene is like. I bet they have a lot more shit than we do.

>>9434640

>>9434640
http://vndb.org/v/all?q=&fil=lang-ko.olang-ja

Not bad. Altered Fable should be on there as well.

>>9434645

Two years of quarterpounders made a sloshing sound as they flowed endlessly from his bowels

>>9434640
What other incentives are there to learn Korean aside understanding Korean dramas and K-Pop lyrics?

>>9434645
Translation: 2cat? 2cat! LMAO

>>9434597
>but if you want to be pretentious and act like using fancy words and sentences makes you intelligent
And that incredibly obnoxious gothic font is an equally bad offender just by itself. It's as bad as fucking sosho.

>>9434640
Interestingly enough, Japanese --> Korean machine translation is more-or-less dead-on for everything but names, so if you use ITH you can play pretty much any Japanese VN or RPG in Korean.

>>9434660

You can cuss back at those little bastards on Starcraft using their shitty TicTacToe language.

>>9434645
毎日
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qLIZ65_orys#t=207s

>>9434660
>understanding Korean dramas and K-Pop lyrics?
Isn't that more of a punishment than an incentive?

>>9434252
>Penguin Classics
I'm guessing they used an old, public domain translation, and those are very often inferior to later translations. Kind of like Constance Garnett's translations of Russian literature, where she just skipped the parts she didn't understand (parts that later translators had no problem translating). As you might be able to tell from this post, there are certainly complaints about translations of literature translated from other languages. It's hardly something exclusive to VN fan translations.

>>9434372
Dude, it is because of a genetic trait that I inherited called laziness.
I wouldnt even be here if I am not lazy.
It is not like I am not enjoying my current lazy and carefree lifestyle. Eroges arent actually the be and end all of all entertainment.
If even subashitty can be transla, there are only 2 AAA+ titles left(murasama and baldr sky) that are in japan onry

>>9434679
>If even subashitty can be transla, there are only 2 AAA+ titles left(murasama and baldr sky) that are in japan onry
How do you know which eroge are good when you have never read them?

>>9434693
In moogy-done we trust.

>>9434628
Is it true that the first book doesn't even teach you the readings? What's the point of first learning the translations of a bunch of kanji and only later figuring out how to actually read them?

>>9434700
Go for Kanjidamage, heisig is shit.

>>9434700

Likely but then you can get it for "free" and it teaches you probably the trickiest part, which is recognizing it. The readings are not so important at first. Being able to recognize them is, and you will likely learn everything else just by coming across that kanji. I tend to find his book works for me. But it might not work for everyone.

>>9434262
gonna moog

>>9434812
>sick and tired of westerners playing this game
moog's gotta moog

>>9434700
You are supposed to learn 50 kanjis a day or something and finish the book in three months. It gives the illusion that you learned a lot of things.
But yeah, if you can't manage to learn more than 5 kanjis a day with Heisig, don't bother.

>>9434812
Good to see Moogy fighting the good fight.

>>9434848
>>9434812
He is just trolling you guys.
Why would he translates subashitty if this is the case.

>>9434812
That was a 10 star thread. Too bad it got deleted.

>>9434848
>>9434812

Regardless of his opinion, saying "westerner" when he is in fact, whiter than a Saltine is a bit weird.

>>9434812
>expert eroge player
i know words like 'autism' and 'loser' get thrown around a lot on here, however this guy is in a league of his own.

>>9434851

I would not say illusion, considering that it is a piece of the puzzle in learning kanji. And lack of success is one of the main reasons people quit anything.

>>9434812
>Do not play this unless you have an understanding of eroge as a canon and are prepared to critique it on a literary basis.

Wish my university had classes for critiquing eroge on a literary basis.

>>9434812
its ironic because hes a translator himself, or at least claims he is.

>>9434812
Ahahaha

mooog
(13:54:35) (~Moogy) forest reallllyyy shouldn't have been translated
(13:54:49) (~Moogy) the translation is awful and kills the theatrical nature of the dialogue, and the game itself is not meant to be played with a consumptive mindset
(13:55:23) (~Moogy) the plot is also super vague in places and nobody can really agree on some things so a translation is probably not the best idea in general
(13:55:27) (c001357) well i dont know where the second part of that sentence came from
(13:55:44) (%Fungi) you can't just go read forest all "entertain me"
(13:55:59) (~Moogy) yeah, it's an arthouse piece
(13:56:05) (~Moogy) to put it simply
(13:56:12) (~Moogy) 2deep4u
(13:56:16) (c001357) yes but what does it have to do with the idea of a translation
(13:56:16) (%Fungi) pretty much
(13:56:32) (~Moogy) because a translation will ensure that a bunch of retards play it

>>9434574
German comes off as the hardest language I had the pleasure to learn. Its grammar, for instance, is much harder than, say, japanese's or english's grammar. Regarding what you said, just learn from whatever method feels more comfortable for you. The best way to learn a language is to suit yourself to your own pace so you don't get yourself tired out.

>>9434597
Yeah, pretty much.

>>9434935
I like to think of the German language like German engineering: it's fantastic and often nearly infallible in its niche, but god help you if you come across an unsupported situation or you break something.

stop liking what i like

>>9434252
>He recently said that Japanese is a better language than English and it's something I couldn't help but shake my head at.
Most people are saying the same thing except vice versa, yet I don't see people like you "shaking your head". People take it for granted that English is the best language ever, why would you be mad if Moogy said that about Japanese?

>>9435067
because kanji is an outdated shitty system

>>9435077
get fucked. it is no different to arbitrary english spelling.

>>9435077
So is the spelling of words in English.

waiting warmly for the takeover of our mandarin overlords.

Why are all fan translators so fucking elitist? Name me one translator that doesn't do it just for for e-peen.

I too read moon and could maybe even translate some simple shit if I ever were arsed to do so, but I still don't go around declaring "I'm an eroge expert", "I played this before it got popular"or "oh no I can't read this anymore since it got translated".

Do they think they're some kind of "pioneers" for eroge industry and want to get themselves a fucking wikipedia page dedicated to them in memory of their "great services" in bringing VNs to western society.

I don't even understand why fan translators exist in the first place. Sure, translating an animu or mango sounds realistic as they're mostly compromised of pictures and you can just stick text onto them, but some VNs are longer than the fucking LotR trilogy and also require knowledge of hacking a foreign engine on top of it.

>>9435067
Not him, but isn't English about the richest language in the world? I simply adore it, always have from my childhood (not even my native language).
Though I too like Japan's different "I"'s, politeness levels, gobi and all those silly nuances and puns you can form just by adding a one letter or changing the words around. I fucking love kanji puns.

>>9435112
>Name me one translator that doesn't do it just for for e-peen.
Makoto? No one seems to know much about this guy, he just delivers AAA+ quality translations. Wasn't he a translator for a.f.k. and Haruhi novels?

>>9435112
>Not him, but isn't English about the richest language in the world?

???

Could you explain the reasoning behind that statement?

If anything I would say it is the most simple language in the world, considering it has barely any grammatical rules.

>>9435112

I rarely ever read the blogs that translators upload their stuff to so I don't care, I'm just happy we have fan translators who are quick and publish stuff for free.

>>9435077
They both have their good and bad points. Japanese works really well for describing things that are Japanese in origin, but when it comes to things that aren't Japanese holy shit prepare your anus. English has its difficult bits, to be sure, but it's pretty goddamn adaptable and already has bits and pieces from dozens of other languages incorporated into it and that makes it a good choice for a standard international language.

>>9435112
[gg], Kotonoha and Makoto, that I can think of off of the top of my head. They do projects because they think they're interesting and/or worth being translated, and also in ([gg]'s case) because they enjoy delicious autism tears from /a/ whenever they fuck around with the subs if they think things are getting boring. I don't know if you're a regular on /a/, but we have 500+ post autistic shitfits when they translate "サンキュ” as "gracias" or do something similar.

>>9435146
One of the largest vocabs (though much stolen from other languages)? And having no strict rules leaves you free to use many ways to express yourself, kinda like Japanese where you can put the words in almost any order as long as they adhere to rules that come with particles and they still manage to make some sort of grammatical sense.

Though I might be a bit biased just because I love how the English langauge sounds (with all the different accents, oooh, the accents!).

You'd think that with the amount of otaku elism on this site, people would treat learning Japanese as a matter of course and be too embarrassed to even post in English.

Don't you all just wish you were 2ch/2chan level otaku? How does it feel that you guys seem like casuals to us?

>>9435210
The grammatical rules in English are quite strict compared to Japanese though. You can construct a sentence in Japanese however you want and it would have the same meaning and tone, the same can't be said for English unless you want to sound like Yoda

>>9435195
>"サンキュ” as "gracias"
Love it.

>>9435225
Have you ever seen "English" 2ch threads? Probably for the same reason.

>>9435146
Wouldn't more grammatical rules mean a language is more restricted? I mean, if we have, say fifty valid ways to express a particular idea, and another language has twenty, then doesn't that mean we have a better chance of having one really good way to express it than they do? All other things being equal anyway.

>>9435225
trying too hard nerd

I can't believe people still take Moogy seriously. Or at least seriously enough to continue reposting his bullshit every chance you get. The guy is either trolling almost all the time, or else really is a pretentious piece of shit who has been far beyond hope for ages. Either way this is nothing new and there's no reason to rage about it every single time.

>>9435210
>(with all the different accents, oooh, the accents!)
The accents are the worst part. Especially the god-awful Scottish? accent video on Youtube where no other English speaker can even identify a single English word.

>>9435256
I think he means tenses and conjugations. Aren't grammatical rules in English quite strict as in where to put the subjective, objective and pronoun etc? If you don't adhere to them them, you're fucked. The same isn't in Japanese.

I don't know how you guys can seriously want to learn Japanese to read VN/Eroge. They're basically no better written than fan fiction.

It's like learning English to watch Deal or no deal.

>>9435126
>Wasn't he a translator for a.f.k. and Haruhi novels?
I thought that was strato

>>9435275
Because I like VN/Eroges? Seriously, are you fucking stupid?

>>9435275
>I don't know how you guys can seriously want to learn Japanese to read VN/Eroge.
I think the only people who would do this are quite bad in Japanese and can't read as fast as they would in English.

>>9435225
>You'd think that with the amount of otaku elism on this site, people would treat learning Japanese as a matter of course and be too embarrassed to even post in English.
Not every part of the site is dedicated to Japan-related things; why the fuck should someone who wants to talk about their car or their rifle bother learning Japanese to post on an English-language site?
>Don't you all just wish you were 2ch/2chan level otaku? How does it feel that you guys seem like casuals to us?
No, not really. I don't even give a fuck about e-peens; I just got sick of people dropping my Chinese comics and LNs never getting translated even when they come with fucking furigana and are <$10 and in stock on Amazon.

>>9435275
But that's not true. The best of VNs are probably about on par with your usual bestseller list stuff. In other words, not great writing but at least passable enough that you don't have to be embarrassed to be reading it, assuming you're not a pretentious twat or the fact that it associated with the animes weren't an issue. Of course, they're not Shakespeare or anything, but nobody expects them to be.

>>9435288
Stop liking what I don't like.

/jp/'s been around for 4 years.

Anyone who was going to learn Japanese would have done so already.

>>9435275
>They're basically no better written than fan fiction.
Those are called OELVNS. Ever compared their quality to eroge?

>>9435275
Not just VN/eroge, but also for many other Japanese media, such as anime, manga and games. Everybody know that fan translations and usually official localizations too are shit.

And hell, I'm perhaps starting to catch a boner for poetry and real Jap literature after reading SubaHibi. I just love the language now and am planning on making it my main living source in the future, perhaps working as a full time translator.

>They're basically no better written than fan fiction.
But this is wrong.

>>9435330
Don't feed the troll.

>>9435329
Not everybody has been here the whole time though. I only really became active here around 2 years or so ago myself.

Also it's the kind of goal where people tend to mean to do it but keep stopping along the way, so it's entirely possible someone could pussyfoot around for years and then finally work up the willpower to actually do it.

>>9435275

More like learning English to watch How I Met Your Mother. Which is actually the reason many of my cousins learn English.

My biggest complaint about Japanese is that there are no good words for dick in the language, or the pussy.

Manko and Chinpo

You can say Chinko and Chinchin, and that's about it. 巨根 maybe. English is way more colorful and has more interesting words to be vulgar with.

>>9434171
Or they're practicing their language skills, I would do the same if Vns were in German

>>9435588
I sometimes read porn in German on ex. It's almost masochistic; the translation is generally good but holy fuck German is probably the worst language I could ever imagine for porn.

I wish more of /jp/ would learn Japanese.

We're all waiting for you in the VN general threads!

>>9435608
I'm planning on it. I don't think it will turn me into a faggot though so you should probably stop waiting.

>>9435546
一物, 陰茎, 男性器, one of my favorites: 肉棒, or just plain 息子
Just to tip the iceberg.

Maybe you should actual inform yourself better if that was your biggest complaint

I thought learning Japanese would let me enjoy otaku things more but now I just feel jaded towards the whole media sector and subculture.

>>9435627
You forgot マラ

>>9435638
I imagine that would have happened regardless.

>>9435546

Your vocab is just limitated. There ar fuck lord of words for genitals in Japanese and you would know that if you ever read an eroge.

>>9435627

It wasn't that they didn't exist, it was about the fact that they are not as fun or interesting. Did you read my post, why are you being unnecessarily aggressive? I know this is /jp/ where everyone acts like they are constantly under attack, but damn.

>>9435638
But look on the bright side: now you get to be a bitter fuck in TWO languages.

Try reading LNs; some of the award-winners are actually quite good.

>>9435643
I actually haven't seen this one yet so far.
Interesting, but well, you could pull out quite a lot more from a dictionary or something anyway. Haha, pull out.

>>9435655
I guess there is something enjoyable in complaining about anime and niwaka these days with natives.

>>9435627

And there are equally many words for pussy. My favorite is 牝穴.

His vocab is just limited.

>>9435652
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but maybe you should clarify what "interesting" means to you, because I sure don't see what's supposed to be uninteresting about japanese words for penis.
Actually, I probably don't even get how english words for penis are interesting.

>>9435672
>Actually, I probably don't even get how english words for penis are interesting.
Not that guy but I think it might have something to do with the fact that, as English borrows from a huge number of languages, the terms used to describe genitalia are very diverse.

>>9435672

I felt my english was pretty simplistic and easy to understand. I'm not sure why you felt it was imperative that you felt you needed to "correct" a problem I never said I had. You just sound high strung to the point where i'm wondering why you are upset and attacking me, considering I never insulted you in any prior post.

Maybe you should rephrase your post in a way that doesn't sound negative and bitter.

>>9435652

They aren't interesting for you because their English counter-parts are more abstract. A cunt is a cunt, you can't imagine anything else except a female genital. Japanese, however, relies on compounds. Best thing is you forget the connotation of the kanji and simply treat the word as something different.

And don't be so defensive, no one here attacked you.

>>9435689
And maybe you should just clearly express what the fuck you actually want to say instead flailing with meaningsless words like a little retard.

Nice we had this little discussion about your biggest hate you can't even explain, though.

>>9435712

This is exactly what i'm talking about, you are incapable of writing a single post without injecting some kind of insult into it. I don't know what's going on, but I asked you to rephrase in a way that wasn't hostile, considering I was never hostile to you. But instead you insist on being immature. I personally would like to continue the discussion, but not if you're too focused on derailing it with insults, i'm not even sure why people seem to think this is even polite to do.

>>9435728
You're an idiot

>>9435712
>>9435732

>>9435652
>>9435689
Drops those fucking image reactions you insufferable faggot. Are you trying to act like you're calm and all?

>>9435756
Why can't you cool down?

>>9435760
pls go crossboard shitter

>>9435756

I have nothing to be mad about, I just wanted to talk about dicks. It wasn't needed to get mad about it and start a fight where none exists. And I don't feel like supporting bad behavior, when the thread was perfectly good to begin with. I was just as confused as you are as to why the argument started. If at any point you want it to continue, you're free to stop acting this way.

You're the one going on shitty forums.

You're both being jackasses; calm down and end this infantile discussion before Yotsuba has to smack both of you.

>>9435782
>I just wanted to talk about dicks
But you're the only one who actually drifted from the topic all the time without providing a single serious reply.

>>9435793

If a serious reply was given I would have given one back.

>>9435799

Different guy here. I did, you ignored it. Anyway, it's not really important.

Can we all stop now?

Makoto > Ixrec > Moogy

www.tsukuru.info/mahoyo.mp3

lol

>>9435807

Fine, the point I was trying to make was. I liked the feel or the sound of words like cock, or cunt. Not so much twat, or snatch. Japanese has 巨根 but that's not really widely usable. And i'm not saying they don't have many words, but to me at least, nothing else seems very 'fun' to use.

It was just reflecting, rather than staying Japanese didn't have these words.

>>9435820
That podcast is over 1/20th the length of the actual visual novel. What a nerd....

>>9435820
What the goddamn fuck. Is he incapable of pronouncing Japanese correctly?

>>9434372
>Keep sitting on your ass, just minimize this and now open anki.

Anki doesn't do shit. Stop telling people to use it.

I've spent time with Anki and barely learned anything because you can just click and get the answer. There's nothing in that program that actually forces you to learn what a character means.

>>9435829

Yeah, it's because you don't really know the etymological roots of the English words. They all meant something different back in the days. In Japanese it's much clearer what they mean and you probably ask yourself why they are considered as vulgar.

In short, your 'feeling' for the language is still not developed enough.

>>9435842
>>9435820

1 minute in I already want to kill myself.

>>9435844
That applies to everything short of hiring someone to put a gun to your head, does it not?

>>9435844
>because you can just click and get the answer

Well, that's entirely your fault if you do that, right?

>>9435844
Funnily enough, I do way better with analog flashcards that I make myself. On one side I have the symbol, and on the other I have the relevant readings, the meanings, the radicals involved and a few common compounds. Making them gives me something to do with my hands, allows me to practice my writing and produces great retention.

>>9435848

My personal feeling, not the feeling of the language. For instance I might prefer saying pussy instead of twat, though twat is more vulgar. I'm not looking for the most vulgar things to say, nor do I not understand that they are vulgar. But that I personally don't have many words that are my favorite that I enjoy using when talking about them in Japanese.

>>9434263
Sorry but they doing it to get their dick sucked.

I actually agree with him. Every VN that gets translated automatically becomes shit.

>>9435820
This is the most hilarious thing.

I still watch with subs and play translated VNs because I've really only started learning japanese.

So far, I have the kana down, and I'm about to start on grammar and kanji. Not sure what the best way to go about that is, but I'll get there eventually, I guess. I recognise a few of the words I see in japanese, and it's really motivating. It feels kinda cool to recognise things like ``です''　and ``わたし''.

I have a long way to go, though.

>>9435820
The fuck.
What the fuck am I listening to.

people who play translated visual novels are subhuman

>>9435932
what about people that don't read it at all and just play for pretty pictures and sound.

>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
>>9435820
this is literally my face atm

>>9435820
mahaeoawyaeaow

>>9435954
Left to right or right to left?

It sounds like he actually uses /jp/. That makes me want to leave /jp/ forever.

Why has nobody killed him yet?

>>9435974
>sounds like
moogy is fucking blight on /jp/ and /vg/

>>9435820
I like how Americans cant into Japanese pronouncation. Feels good to be Swedish. Moog's gonna moog, I guess.

>>9435820
AH-KNEE-MEH

>>9435984
I bet you don't pronounce ou as long o, pleb.

>>9435984
Not only was that .mp3 painful to listen to, but as someone so elitist and obnoxious about the most superior language that is Japanese, he can't even speak Japanese. He drones on not even realizing people will get bored of it.

>>9435820
A I E, and motherfucking O.

Stop playing inferior Japanese games and play English masterpieces instead. I've never read a Japanese game I could consider "art" or "literature". It's like the English-speaking world has discovered children's books and decided to write some proper novels.

>>9436021
u MENA あい、う、え、お

>>9435984
IKEA

>>9434010
Except the people (who aren't Moogy) that pour their time and energy into translating games (and books and scripts and so on), sometimes for a living but sometimes for free just so others can enjoy it.

Lumping us all in with Moogy is unfair.

>>9434171
Many other people have already handed your ass to you in this thread, but as just one overlooked example: how is it that you can't believe someone would provide entertainment for others at personal cost when manga scanlations are so prolific?
Sure, some of those are made with raws from Share or wherever, but easily over half are only in existence because someone was kind enough to buy a perfectly good tankou or magazine and ruin it as a book by cutting the spine apart, just so it can be scanned in the best possible quality and shared with others.

protip: Very few people are as concerned with your manufactured drama and hipster whining as you are, and none of them are producing shit. Notice how the people who produce good translations also tend to be the ones who keep their mouths shut.

>>9435112
TakaJun
GundamAce
guys that did Quartett!

And that's just off the top of my head.

>>9435820
a pHODcast

"masuka no yolew"

whyyyy do you enunciate both t's in the word "battle"

oh god I'm dying

Congratulations Moogy, you're lacking in fluency in TWO languages.

>>9436365
Scanlation is a big business, thanks to FoOlz-powered scalable technologies:
http://foolrulez.org/blog/2012/01/the-age-of-scanlators-and-money/

people might hate moogy but everyone loves mugen.

>>9435820
And yet, like most other twentysomething white males, you mistake it for fact.

/thread

>>9436411
Yes, except that's only a recent development. So is Share as a raw source, some to think of it. Even five years ago there was no profit in it unless you wanted to put a donation button on your site.

Get on vocaroo faggots and lets see how you pronouce it.

>>9436433
nice dubs

>>9436433
'sup "moo""gy"

>>9436433
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0131QYsH1mj

Feel free to use it for practice.

>>9436461
Excellent static, bro.

>>9436433
I'll consider it if you post a Vocaroo of yourself pronouncing it.

>>9435820
> "CGs"

oh moogy-sama-jouheika, with your elite literary critic's mind and endless knowledge of the visual novel medium, i shouldn't have to tell you that they're called event graphics.

It's like I'm in middle school again. People who want to look cool with their porn games ridicule people who want to look smart with their porn games. Guess what? You have the same hobbies. It's like I'm watching an adult baby version of "normalfag" power games.

>>9436468
Only if you go first, faggot.

>>9436474
quit whining and go translate the next .00005% of Subahibi, moogy.

>>9436433
I don't even know Japanese http://vocaroo.com/i/s0U0o8asgfIR

>>9436487
Okay.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0cMLXPtqqbx
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0oTHM1ga1GH

>>9433956
Christ, what a massive faggot.

I wish my mic weren't broken so I could participate in the public shaming of Moogy ;___;

>>9436563
Plug your headphones into your microphone slot

I think you can do this with speakers too

>>9436566
Well I'll be damned. To think it could be so simple.
Thanks, Anonymous! I will grant you the choice of what I say in it, should you have a preference.

Ha plebs
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0nagmro9jqq

This is how you say it.

>>9436519 is spot on; >>9436544 a little further but the feeling you put into it makes it good.

Where are you two from (for accent-identification purposes)?

>>9436598
>>9436519 im

I'm from Sweden.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0RDNpIewYEm

tried to hit some of the words that were most hilariously pronounced.

might sound funny/lisping since I have a huge canker sore on my inner top lip right now.

>>9436600
fucking trilinguals ;_;

>>9436598
I'm (>>9436544) from Finland.

>>9436583
中出しされるのはこんなに気持ちいいわけがない

>>9436609
Not having fucktarded english pronunciantion helps.
How hard can it be to pronounce Mahoyo?

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0PN0aFbwivZ

>>9436604
we female now

>>9436604
also not bad. some people get buttmad if you do the "shifting into Japanese accent for Japanese words" thing, but here it's not so glaring. also, when you consider the alternative...

>>9436627
Need I remind you where you are?

>>9436583
Not him, but I want someone yelling
>今夜はエッチなウサギになって、雄二(Yuuji)のにんじん食べちゃうぴょん
！
enthusiastically into mic and my life will be complete. Grisia no Meikyuu

>>9436627
or /jp/s most delicious sounding trap

(and if you're not, you fucking should be)

http://vndb.org/t2932/2#29
>It's also the only romanization that even begins to make a lick of sense from the perspective of helping English speakers pronounce the damn thing.

Kind of ironic how he can't pronounce Japanese words anyway.

Murrikans are linguistically broken.

>>9436622
ask mugi-teiou

>>9435820
Oh god this is terrible. I'm don't even care about his pronunciation, but this review(?) is fucking terrible. He just rambles about nothing.

I mean he's been talking for five minutes about the presentation and sound of the game, but he hasn't even mentioned that it's not fucking voiced.

>>9436618
http://vocaroo.com/i/s03RzoqvYaiA

>>9436635
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0a5gkW3Re3c

>>9436635
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0tSPCQv77zY

>>9436659
o shit

I would be honored and privileged if you would please, please kindly do one that's just some *haah haah* type eroge heavy breathing

>>9435820
Why does he speed up and then slow down? He's like a sine wave. It would be hypnotic if it wasn't so annoying.

>>9436663
Where are you from?

>>9436659
>>9436670
Thank you. 10/10 wud fug both at the same time

>>9436677
Meant to quote >>9436659

>>9436677
>>9436663

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0bF2lyeRPI3

get on my level
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0R0qsEGLYmJ

>>9436626
Give me your best ojou-sama laugh /jp/

>>9436700
may i just have sex with your accent then

>>9436704
id fuck ur spanish cunt neday bby :3

>>9436714
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0nWEOqsjemR

>>9436722
You forgot to clap little miss.

>>9436727
http://vocaroo.com/i/s086iHeYA5Tv

>>9435820
Oh god what the fuck. I think my sides just fell off.

It is a good thing that my native language is Czech, because thanks to the nature of the language I never ever had any problems with Japanese pronounciation. Also, I didn't have to go through hell and back just to learn how to pronounce R.

>>9436750

It's only Anglophones (and maybe the French) who have problems with the Japanese pronunciation. Any other European language has clear vowels, as far as I know.

>>9436918
I don't know how Anglophones can have any problems with clear vowels, or any part of Japanese pronunciation, honestly.

>>9435908

Focus on grammar, vocabulary, etc. Learn the cool or fun things first. Kanji is important to tie everything together. At this point you should use Jisho.org, rikaikun, etc. and read manga with furigana (the kana above the kanji in younger-aimed manga).

The objective is to learn like Japanese kids do, although they can speak some Japanese before they write Kana, that's the first thing you will do. The rest will be learning a good amount of vocab, and how sentences feel in Japanese (think of it like a mix between backwards, and yoda) Then work on kanji when you know a good amount of Japanese. Because at this point, you are tieing the things you know (words) with the kanji for them.

Also with Google IME you can type kanji and learn them that way.

>>9437064
>The objective is to learn like Japanese kids do

That's pretty much the worst thing you can do. They need 16 - 17 years only to learn all common kanji. Why? Because they structure the kanji after their usefulness. That may be appropiate for someone who lives in the country, but it's the most inefficient way for an adult foreigner.

>Learn the cool or fun things first

I disagree. Learning the hardest part first will give you a good motivation boost. It's also an good indicator for your seriousness. No sane person drops Japanese after learning 2500 kanji.

>>9437106

I'm not saying learning kanji in the same way they do. We have good tools for that like Heisig, Kanjidamage, Anki, etc. I'm saying that in general. Learning the Kana, then learning to understand the language, by filling out your vocabulary, then learning Kanji is the best way to do it. As you will be learning Kanji, even before you "start" working on them. And this way you learn and see immediate benefit to learning.

Pace yourself, learn in a way that keeps you hungry to learn more, that's the trick to learning anything. If you try to force yourself to learn, your brain won't be interested.