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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 56 KB, 850x400, quote-they-call-you-heartless-but-you-have-a-heart-and-i-love-you-for-being-ashamed-to-show-friedrich-nietzsche-51-44-14.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23377554 No.23377554 [Reply] [Original]

I liked it overall but the sidestory with Roz and Hal almost ruined it ngl

Also: did the fat bitch murder her mom and sister? What yall thinkin, litty mctitty?

>> No.23377562

>>23377554
Is that quote real? Plaster it over a susnet and the normies will go crazy for it.

>> No.23377587

>>23377562
They call you brainless; but you have a brain and I love you for being ashamed to show it.


File: 460 KB, 630x767, Yukio_Mishima,_1955_(cropped).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23377500 No.23377500 [Reply] [Original]

i am reading sun and steel, and i really love it. this guy is awesome. which book of his should i read next?

1 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.23377506

>>23377500
What are you interested in. Beauty, neurotic protagaonists, death, homoeroticism, fascism, modernity, despair

>> No.23377510

>>23377500
If gay, Confessions.
If not, Sailor.

>> No.23377518

>>23377510
what if im both

>> No.23377523

>>23377518
Confessions, then Sailor

>> No.23377535

>>23377518
Forbidden Colors


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23377448 No.23377448 [Reply] [Original]

>reading infinite jest
>every 10 pages scroll lit


File: 142 KB, 432x500, Thomas_Stearns_Eliot_by_Lady_Ottoline_Morrell_(1934).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23377445 No.23377445 [Reply] [Original]

Just finished my second reading of T.S. Eliot’s The Waste Land. It made no sense the first time I read it, but this time I used study guides and analyses to help me and I annotated the hell out of my copy of it. I’m just going to share my thoughts I guess:

>Cultural fragmentation
One recurring theme was nostalgia for the past, for a time that was more unified, more coherent, and more noble. References to Ancient Greece, to Hinduism, to Shakespeare. There were some modern literature references though that didn’t seem disparaging, but I think the point was more so that modern culture doesn’t strive for the same “nobleness” that the older cultures did, that modern culture is more vapid, more lustful. The first section of the poem is a memory of childhood and was much more innocent and idyllic. His characters in the modern world seem to mostly go to work, have vapid conversations, and have unfulfilling sex (or at least attempt to have sex), all the while feeling isolated and disconnected from others. I can’t really think of any example of meaningful community/connection depicted in the parts where modern life is depicted.

>The ending
The ending of the poem seemed somewhat ambiguous on whether humanity is doomed spiritually or if we are going to find a new “truth” after the destruction of our old “truths”. I am currently leaning towards a more optimistic reading. Specifically, I cite the 3 “DA” sections at the end. These act as “divine wisdom” and as cultural critiques. I don’t know how much these are altered/remixed from original Hindu teachings, but either way, the idea seems to be that we can look to new values to try and orient ourselves. The options would be either a new unified value system, or the “cultural collage” of past cultures shown throughout the poem. In regards to Eliot’s stance on his “cultural collage”, I want to cite one of the final lines of the poem

>“These fragments I have shored against my ruins”

This line makes Eliot’s “cultural collage” sound more like a make-shift defense against the spiritual death of modern society, but not necessarily an ideal solution. This seems true especially considering how the poem presents itself as intentionally confusing precisely because of this fragmented cultural state. Nonetheless, it was all Eliot had to defend himself from what he viewed as a base way of modern life and the final chant of “Shantih” seems to suggest that the solution we need cannot be reasoned to. We can only try to work through the collapse of the old world and survive these awkward growing pains of industrial life...

>> No.23377468

>>23377445
Not really relevant but it's interesting how to most anons the west in the 1920s would be like heaven compared to where we are today. Culturally speaking at least. How far we have fallen, for their hell to look like our heaven.

>> No.23377502

>>23377468
I do feel like the depictions of modern life actually seemed somewhat comparable to today, but just so exponentially magnified compared to back then.

Especially the part in Section II with the vapid small talk in the bar about the wife who needs to have sex with her army husband to keep him happy and the workaholic men in Section I.

But I do wonder how much the life of lower-class/lower-middle class is like today (in terms of values and behavior). The idea that even common people would care about things like
>knowledge of specific scripture passages (for any religion)
>articulate speech
>good posture
Or whatever else I associate with old-timey "good manners" is just weird, though I understand that to be true that even normal people back then cared when you'd mumble or slouch or have sloppy penmanship lol

>> No.23377539

>>23377445
based Eliot reader
>One recurring theme was nostalgia for the past, for a time that was more unified, more coherent, and more noble. References to Ancient Greece, to Hinduism, to Shakespeare.
I've always seen it as an attempt at reconstituting that "more unified, coherent, and noble" world by incorporating the fragments of the 'great past' into the modern world, a sort of weaving together into a new pattern (given the rest of his work, I say this was intentionally done and not just the result of eisegesis on our part)
>This line makes Eliot’s “cultural collage” sound more like a make-shift defense against the spiritual death of modern society, but not necessarily an ideal solution.
precisely, an 'ideal' solution cannot be seen from within the collapse, but a way through it, perhaps, can be (which you noted as well)
but the fragments he's "shored against his ruins" do more than offer a meager shelter, which in the face of the apocalypse seems inconsequential - the fragments point to the fact that there are some things from the old world, the pre-storm one, that are worth preserving and will serve those to come well (the divine wisdom is not a novel formulation of the storm, but the wisdom of the old world recapitulated by the very means of its destruction)
it's also interesting that the poem can be read as one of those fragments of the old world which has survived to instruct the new if we read it as a chronicle of the apocalypse, which we are clearly here to read - for us, then, it provides a description of the falling old world against which to measure ours and wisdom to go by to avoid its fate

>> No.23377550

>O O O O that Shakespeherian Rag
>It's so elegant
>So intelligent

Every time I hear people unironically compare rap to poetry or really just intellectualize the non-intellectual in an attempt to score good boy points I am reminded of these lines.


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23377444 No.23377444 [Reply] [Original]

First you’re denying the ultrareality of the Forms, then you’re affirming pregnant men. Its a long but inevitable tumble down into hell.

15 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.23377577
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23377577

>>23377444
>solves metaphysics and moves beyond it
Platofags thoroughly and permanently BTFO

>> No.23377584

>>23377444
>"What? Men can't be women!"
>"Why, yes, this wafer is actually transubstantiated into the flesh of God made man which I am about to cannibalize."
Breaking news, cults are wild.

>> No.23377597

>>23377584
>hurrr why can the divine mind do something a mortal with autogynophillia can’t?

>> No.23377606

>>23377571
MBTI has some flaws which I have been in the process of remedying. The basic premises and dichotomies which it utilizes are very powerful analytical tools. I won't go into why, but I think what Jung was observing, amazingly, is the relay process of individual thoughts within his patients. He sort of fuzzily honed in on it by reducing their thinking to these counter-balanced categories. Neurology is catching up slowly, and I think it will vindicate him in this regard in the end, though many of his ideas are beyond salvage. A caution, if you get too good at it, people's types and functions leap out unexpectedly, and sometimes it has the unfortunate side-effect of inadvertently associating your feelings for one individual to another. It can be difficult to stop and break even when you're conscious of it. At least, for me [INTJ]. An INFP may be better at dealing with that, or may be worse. I'm not sure which it would be.

>> No.23377611

>>23377606
>sometimes it has the unfortunate side-effect of inadvertently associating your feelings for one individual to another. It can be difficult to stop and break even when you're conscious of it.
That's one reason why (apart from my misgivings about the accuracy of the typology) I try to avoid conceptualising things in terms of MBTI too much. I have obsessive-compulsive thinking which means my brain can get sort of stuck or fixated without my wanting it. My boyfriend is an INTJ. Why is the INTJ/INFP pairing so potent?


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23377441 No.23377441 [Reply] [Original]

What is the point of this series?

>> No.23377443

>>23377441
Profit.

>> No.23377449
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23377449

>>23377441
They did a spinoff without the middle man.


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23377439 No.23377439 [Reply] [Original]

The western canon is fundamentally degenerate. Savonarola was right.

2 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.23377458

>>23377439
That's just common sense. Only faggots read literature.

>> No.23377467

>>23377439
99.99% of people are degenerates.

>> No.23377474

>>23377467
Not that high but still the majority.

>> No.23377489

>19 and 35
>groomed

>> No.23377495

>half the list is literally just adult men and women getting married


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23377413 No.23377413 [Reply] [Original]

This is the second worst book I've ever read, short of any given Murakami joint.
>oh yes let me just interject every other chapter with my hip subversive counterculture anthropologist alter-ego to remind you how baaad sOciEtY is aaargh overpopulation I'm literally losing my miiind damn those christians there's going to be too many white people and all the women will be giving everyone free sex and black people will dwarf us in intellect and moral dignity

>> No.23377423

Well I liked it

>> No.23377552

>interjects post with his hip subversive counterculture greentext autist self to remind you how smaaaart he is

>> No.23377582

the IT twist, the updating of the computer process, was not to be despised that much


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23377351 No.23377351 [Reply] [Original]

Do you think it’s alright to italicize words with emphasis on them in dialogue?

8 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.23377486

>>23377431
I'm past explaining the obvious. Figure out why I said what I said, or don't. I don't care.

>> No.23377508

>>23377351
It's fine just don't abuse it. I've seen it used many a time

>> No.23377519

>>23377351
*Yes*

>> No.23377563

>>23377351
I do it in Slack and Discord all the time. Why wouldn’t it be OK?

>> No.23377591

>>23377351
I wouldn't want to say you should never use it, but you should try to avoid it. It's similar to using words other than "said" for dialogue. If the writing is good the emphasis should be clear without italics.

When a good writer uses italics it's usually for another purpose. Often it's when the words are a quotation of some sort. For example:


--


Are you people in charge of the Suttree funeral?

Yessir. That’s at three oclock this afternoon.

Suttree didnt hear. The words *Suttree funeral* had caused him to let the receiver fall away from his ear.


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23377262 No.23377262 [Reply] [Original]

>Yiu choose
It’s only halfway ironi c


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23377158 No.23377158 [Reply] [Original]

A big part of his supposed genius was commonplace back then. He only seems esoteric and mysterious to us because of his obscure language. He was forgotten until Voltaire or some faggot revived him from oblivion and now every literary academist jerks off about how amazing he was while in truth he was alright for the times. There's nothing in Shakespeare that doesn't also happen in other artists from the period.

6 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.23377278
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23377278

>>23377158
t. non white

>> No.23377281

>>23377158
C O P E
I really wish someone would just delete you halfwits. Hitler chose the wrong demographic.

>> No.23377288

>>23377278
>>23377281
seethe harder

>> No.23377296

>>23377281
>Hitler chose the wrong demographic.
That's the one thing he chose right.

>> No.23377320

>>23377158
Not of an age but for all time, faggot.


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23377146 No.23377146 [Reply] [Original]

Kill Sean Carroll. Behead Sean Carroll. Roundhouse kick pop-science philistines into the concrete.

>> No.23377152

FPBP

>> No.23377181

His cold tone of voice and robotic mannerisms frighten me. There’s no way he doesn’t have 10 terabytes of cp on a hard drive somewhere.


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23377092 No.23377092 [Reply] [Original]

List some books you are interested in and other anons comment if they’ve read them

>The Lord Chandos Letter and other stories - von Hofmannsthal
>Tales of ETA Hoffman
>Toilers of the Sea - Hugo
>Life is a Dream - Calderon
>Paradiso - Lima
>The Glass Bead Game - Hesse
>La Bas/Au Rebours - Huysmans
>Renoir, My Father - Renoir
>In Parenthesis - Jones
>John Ruskin
>The New Science - Vico
>Willa Cather

1 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.23377227

>>23377092
i love women so much, bros

>> No.23377270
File: 118 KB, 900x900, 1702865617995809.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23377270

Thread's already off to a brilliant start, 2 thirstposts and no comments about any books (sorry OP, I haven't read any of yours either)

>Super Cannes - JG Ballard
>Of Plimouth Plantation - William Bradford
>Homo Zapiens - Victor Pelevin
>Imperium - Christian Kracht
>The Lotus Sutra
>Dubliners - James Joyce
>Wherever You Go, There You Are - Jon Kabat-Zinn
>The Friendly Persuation - Jessamyn West
>The Origin Of Species - Charles Darwin
>Up From Slavery - Booker T. Washington
>The Kalevala
>The Dharma Bums - Jack Kerouac
>The Secret History - Donna Tartt
>King Henry IV - Shakespeare
>The Fable Of The Bees - Bernard Mandeville
>Democracy In America - Alexis de Tocqueville

>> No.23377315

>>23377270
The Dharma Bums is excellent. Everyone seems to like it better than On the Road. It has a quest for spirituality in a way that OTR doesn’t. Kerouac’s jazzy, sometimes juvenile writing style always takes me a little to get used to but once I’m adjusted I tend to like him, faults and all. It’s a quick read as well. Easy to blow through in a few days. I’m really unsure why OTR is seen as Kerouac’s most famous. Every other book I’ve read from him has been better.

>> No.23377317

>>23377270
>>23377315
And I forgot to say, The Snow Leopard might be something you’d like. One of the best books I’ve read in the last year

>> No.23377453

>>23377092
Both the Hofmannsthal and the Huysmans's are great


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23377075 No.23377075 [Reply] [Original]

I'd read a bunch of heavy books recently and want to take a break from that. I just want a fun fantasy adventure book. It can be super tropey but I really could give less of a fuck about lore so no Lord of the Rings. What would you rec me?

Something like Jason and the Golden Fleece comes to mind where its a bunch of friends going out on a dangerous quest with a nice bit of romance, except you know written fairly recently without all the archaic language.

>> No.23377095

>>23377075
Just a nice light story…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medea_(play)

>> No.23377109
File: 47 KB, 450x355, flashy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23377109

>>23377095
I mean yeah it gets pretty fucked up, but thats partly what I want. I don't want moral paragons just some rogues going out looking for a fun time. Like a Flashman set in a sword and sorcery setting. I'd read Flashman but I think the covers are too raunchy to bring into the office.


File: 577 KB, 652x1000, tao te ching.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23377037 No.23377037 [Reply] [Original]

Is spiritually enriching? Does it lead to peace and fulfillment? I'm just trying to figure out if this book and eastern philosophy is more than just smoke and mirrors.

5 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.23377250

>>23377245
Neoconfucianism is richer than taoism
You are the real midwit who does not understand the investigation of things
Taoism is merely a showcase of one aspect of principle which can be learned through the investigation of a narrower set of things
broaden your mind

>> No.23377271

>>23377250
Any philosophy that prescribes social rules instead of connecting to your soul first is insufficient at best
>but Confucianism says its connecting to the soul
It's backwards

>> No.23377273

>>23377037
How to properly read this book:
> Read it one chapter at a time
> Meditate and reflect on the chapter for one day
> Move on to the next chapter

This is not a "fast book". Each chapter has a lot of meaning that slowly builds up as you go through it. If you take your time, then you can understand it and find ways to apply it. If you just burn through it in one setting, you won't be able to fully process it all.

>> No.23377283

>>23377273
I don't recommend this approach. You can't understand it until something actually happens or you observe an event to which you can apply the principle within the book. It's better to get the whole book in your mind so that as situations arise, you learn the meaning of the statements by having them ready to use. The words are naked formula that must be concretized, no amount of thinking about them in the abstract will teach you anything. You have to live with the words for a long time and experience many situations which you only realize a particular phrase applies to after the fact.
>>23377271
You only know the surface

>> No.23377312

>>23377271
Surface level Platonism knowledge, midwit.


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23377027 No.23377027 [Reply] [Original]

I don't care about the pleasures of the flesh anymore. I want to seek wisdom and/or spirituality. I want to dedicate my life to knowledge to try to fill the void and find answers that could quiet my tormented soul.

What should I read?

>> No.23377030

>i shall renounce all of one half and lose myself in the other
fool's game. enjoy being miserable mate

>> No.23377035

>>23377027
The first anons post who responded to you

>> No.23377058

>>23377027
start with the Greeks

>> No.23377065

>>23377027
That's retarder. You should go and live life fully. That's the (only)way to understand or read literature. You would just end like sophist who just talk shit all the time and your soul lost in time.

>> No.23377070

>>23377030
FPBP


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23377010 No.23377010 [Reply] [Original]

What's stopping you from writing a tropey but fun to read novel?

7 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.23377346

>>23377010
Im honestly a total fucking idiot dumber than any nepobaby or romance novelist. I am living proof that reading books, understanding themes, appreciating prose. Its all just a hobby and none of it implies intelligence whatsoever.

>> No.23377347
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23377347

>>23377010
>what's stoping you
>can't really think of anything
Y'know anon. Maybe I should do just that.

>> No.23377349

>>23377010
A sort of prideful awareness which weighs each further future as greater than the future which precedes it, thus rendering the hypothetical opinions of posterity as infinitely heavier than those of humans now living.

>> No.23377353

>>23377010
Myself. And I hate myself because of it.

>> No.23377426

>write multiple novels
>don't think I'm good enough for tradpub
>self-publish everything
>realize I actually write better than most published authors
>I could've been something if I tradpubbed
>no publisher will touch my work now that they're already out there
>nobody knows me, none of my books sell
it's over


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23377003 No.23377003 [Reply] [Original]

So were he and Queequeg... you know...

>> No.23377008
File: 142 KB, 700x525, 5a1dcfb3f914c357018b6905.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
23377008

Sailors?

>> No.23377041

Just a couple of seamen


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23376969 No.23376969 [Reply] [Original]

The clock, evil, terrifying, inscrutable god
Whose menacing finger warns us, crying "Remember
Throbbing pains will soon stab your quivering heart
As into a target

"Pleasure will vanish like a cloud over the horizon,
Like a sylph vanishing into the wings of a stage
Each moment is devouring some portion of that delight
Which is granted to every man for his season of existence

"Three thousand and six hundred times an hour,
The Second whispers: 'Remember'
Swiftly, with the voice of an insect, the Present says:
'I'm already your past,
And I have drained your life with my loathsome suckers

"Remember Souviens-toi, O prodigal Esto memor!
(My metal throat can speak all languages)
The minutes, O foolish mortal,
Are like ore from which the precious metal must be wrung

"Do not forget
Time is a greedy gambler who wins at every turn of the wheel
Without cheating
Such is the law
The day declines, the night deepens
The thirst of the abyss knows no end;
The hourglass drains

"The hour will soon strike when divine Chance
Or austere Virtue (your still virgin spouse)
Or even Repentance (your last refuge),
In fact all three will tell you
'Die, old coward, it's too late'"


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23376954 No.23376954 [Reply] [Original]

Was diary of a wimpy kid based or pozzed?

26 replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
>> No.23377599
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23377599

>>23377593
I don't take any supplements or any of that garbage. I'm just naturally the way I am.

What a whiny little dude you are haha

>> No.23377602

>>23377598
I don't care about your race of 5'2 rice munchers either. Just fuck off and stop spreading your misinfo.

>> No.23377603

>>23377602
Objective truth isn't misinfo, golem.

>> No.23377605

>>23377603
Objectively my germanic ancestors put fags to death, you spastic cunt.

>> No.23377607

>>23377605
All great Germans (Fredrich der Große, Goethe, Winckelmann, Nietzsche, Mann, etc.) approved of homosexuality