/lit/ - Literature

Christbros..

Anything is more likely than the current claims of the death cult regarding the giant space slug who crapped out feces and the bacteria on the feces becoming planets suddenly becoming a human (one of the most inferior species in the 10,000 galaxies) and appearing in a human cesspit.

>>22108898
Holy reddit

>>22108898
Giant space slug? You're thinking of Slurm, bro.
>It's highly addictive!

What is it about Jesus (and about the Catholic Church in particular) that drives so many fly-by-night schizos up the wall?

>>22109173
get lost, simple jew.

>>22108898
soi overload

>>22109189
>schizos
a schizo religion
ironic

>>22109194
pedophile groomer

>>22109189
you guys are going to shit when you learn the babylonian jew connection to jesus and james

>What is it about Jesus (and about the Catholic Church in particular) that drives so many fly-by-night schizos up the wall?
you like to pretend persecution and pretend it's happening even when people are just laughing at you. so probably this.

>>22109185
krunka lunka secret ingredient

>>22109229
> happening even when people are just laughing at you
*checks thread*
Nah it's deranged schizos

>>22109243
>>22109229
>>22109207
>>22109198
>>22109190
>>22108898

>>22108445
Jesus mythicists abstain from being retarded speculators challenge (impossible)
>>22109189
Anything with some historical ambiguity or blindspots is prime schizobait. See: The templars.

>>22109426
>>22109298
>>22109294
as you know, ad hominem does several things:
1) does not refute argument or case
2) confirms you have no refutation or argument or case
3) makes your original claims indefensible
4) reveals you as extremely depraved and dishonest

>>22108445
not sure about Edessa but I listened to a few of these last night and was very impressed - there are like 65 hour long lectures on youtube on each topic of OT and nT

some are ... more convincing than others

The shroud is getting proven to be real by each day.

>>22110369
I'm not here to refute your retardation nigger. I'm making fun of you. And so are the other anons you (you)'d.
"nO AWgUmEn" becoming a popular retort among idiots is my most hated evolution of E-discourse.

>>22110437
i accept your concession

Lol. Lmao even.

>>22110521
What's the matter?

>>22110539
Grifter larping as an academic and peddling schizo conspiracies

>>22110369
A common debate tactic on 4chan is to make a nonsense statement baiting people into a meme response, then follow up by claiming that everyone who responded did not make an argument. Where did you make a philosophical argument in this thread that deserves a proper refutation ?

>>22110548
>noooo u don't have le papers to think

>>22110434
The shroud of Turin was debunked in the late 1980s when carbon dating placed its creation at about the same time as its "discovery", and DNA testing determined the stains were made with pig blood.
Wow...talk about denial.

>>22111071
You don’t, but you do need the accountability of the peer-review process

>>22111075
(Not true, by the way)

>>22108528

>>22111080
>accountability of the peer-review process

>>22111084
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating_of_the_Shroud_of_Turin
Cope more.
>b-but medieval repairs!
lol

>>22111119
The radiation from Christ's resurrection tampered with the carbon

>>22111133
>jesus was radioactive
major cope

If he wanted me to take his claims seriously, maybe he shouldn't have used Papyrus and an illustration that made his groundbreaking masterwork look like a children's coloring book for sale at an Egyptian-themed amusement park in the midwest.

>>22110456
I accept your transition.

>>22111495
The art cover was made by Christians trying to sabotage his work, not by the author. You got conned.

>>22111741
But what if that's just what they WANT you to think?

oh shit nice the thread isn't dead

So, as I said this morning: >>22110369 adding >>22110403 but who can really say how much they love the whore as they kiss her on the cheek and head out the door to start the day?

Further thoughts.
You guys are really fucking off all the people who actually 'are' your religion when you do this kind of thing, christcucks. The bible, as you wave it around like an old mans impotent balls, is one the dumbest and most obviosuly fake stories ever - maybe the most fake ever - but Ellis is making it interesting and you're grossly undervaluing this. Do you worship the book, the lies that later men made up and pretended, or are you actually interested in the historical reality of the men themselves who you profess to believe are gods and prophets? It sure as fucking shit sounds like you could give a fuck about who these people were or what they were really doing lol

As I said I don't know about Edessa, but Ellis's research is far more than just that one thing. Look up 'Solomon and Sheba' on the list and consider that the golden face of that Pharaoh from Tanis may well be the Solomon and that Solomon may have actually been a real person, and not this teletubby shit you guys pretend to worship/respect/follow (and obviously do nothing about).

>>22110437
>retardation nigger. I'm making fun of you
lol for what? You're just doing ad hominem to the author and pretending "anybody" is some made up shit. Anyone can tell you're a manchildren who was raised on TV news if this is what you think is a successful strategy.

tired of this. call me a reddit, you simple jew.

>>22110903
>everyone who responded did not make an argument.
this remains true however. And I wouldn't call a well-thought out few paragraphs of a case followed by proofs, followed up by a dog-pile of politically-motivated bad faith actors to be any kind of debate, christcuck.

Truth is, nobody wants to debate with your kind. You're an impediment to any discussion and you're only here to disrupt.

>> It sure as fucking shit sounds like you could give a fuck about who these people were or what they were really doing lol
for instance,
If I liked (XYZ person/thing) in history yet knew nothing of it and became upset and not happy to learn that clues about (XYZ person/thing) had been discovered or was being presented as a possible answer... then surely it is because I would have no real interest in that thing in the first place, being totally content with whatsoever fantasy I had in my head which I would have inherited or constructed for myself.

i.e. this is the face you present and which the world recognizes when you engage in ad hominem. Pretending amongst yourselves that some other fantasy is going on about the people who recognize this with you is a second delusion; habituated and consecutive with the first delusion.

it is like "houses built on sand," as Governor Jesus said.

>>22111133
>da resurections are inside my shrouds!
You got me i must now worship the semitic volcano demon who apparently was radioactive too

>>22111988
>>22112018
>>22112051
Kek our redditor bitch is back. Here bitch have a (You) for being a good dog.

>>22112060
>(you)
>(you)
>(not you)
>kek
every 4chan post of some alt-right pseudo-kike from the trump era out to get christians killed by impersonating them and inspiring violence towards them.

>>22112051

>>22111119
>After testing was concluded, the researchers announced that all three research groups had dated their cloth snippets to a time between 1260 and 1390—evidence that the shroud was not from the time of Christ. But there was a problem with the findings—the Vatican, which owns the shroud, refused to allow other researchers access to the data. In this new effort, the research team sued the University of Oxford, which had the data, for access—and won. After studying the data for two years, the new research team announced that the study from 1988 was flawed because it did not involve study of the entire shroud—just some edge pieces. Edge pieces from the shroud are rumored to have been tampered with by nuns in the Middle Ages seeking to restore damage done to the shroud over the years. In a recent interview with L"Homme Nouveau, Tristan Casabianca, team lead on the new effort, claimed that the raw data from the 1988 tests showed that the test samples were heterogeneous, invalidating the results.

>>22108445
>In reality, Jesus was a son of King Abgarus of Edessa, a princeling with a small realm, a large treasury, and even bigger ambitions.
Oh look a complete and utter lie that disagrees with thousand of manuscripts, archeology, and world historical moments. How could satan do this? Do you really think he'd just lie?

>>22108898
unironically kill yourself

>>22108445
>Descendend of David is Syrian king
kek they are really taking a piss here

>>22112264
>>22112569
Cope

>>22111094
Lol. Lmao even. I’ve read books about Christianity written by armchair scholars like this. Haven’t come across one worth the ink they’re printed on.

They’re appealing to people that: 1. Have limited knowledge of historical Christianity, 2. Have a bias against Christianity that they want confirmed, 3. Have a proclivity to conspiracy theories, and 4. Look like picrel

The telltale sign of books of this ilk are: 1. No publisher name/logo on the front cover, 2. Author has no relevant credentials.

>>22112852
Doesn't matter, you gave credibility to the peer pressure process that retracted "racist" evolutionary biology papers and accepted gender queer theory papers. You're a queer.

>>22111988
>the bible is the fakest thing ever
>except for OP's self-published nonsense from some schizo
>that's the real part because it goes against the bible

>>22108445
I just want to have my faith, I know it doesn't make sense but fucking stop. I just want to turn off my brain and have some sort of existential comfort.

Fucking hell I need to find another religion again.

>>22112910
Bad bait

>>22112872
>the peer review process has negative traits, therefore it has no virtuous traits
Composition fallacy, brainlet

>>22110369
ad hominem does not really do any of these things
if your argument is correct it doesn't matter if you call the other guy a retard or not
the only thing it does is make him less likely to accept your argument

>>22112910
>mfw the brainlet fedora-tippers on this board have been left with no standing arguments so they’ve resorted to cringe bait

>>22113008
While I am on the side of the anon you’re responding to, I agree, he committed the fallacy fallacy

>>22108445
Is this supposed to make Jesus look more like a badass? Might we see the rise of a war-willing christian sect?

>>22112988
It's a fact. Peer-review is worthless because all peers are worthless.

>>22112988
You have a fallacy just now. You misrepresented my position and yours. You can't figure it out by yourself.

>>22110369
>ad hominem
Don't use words you don't understand. Name-calling isn't ad hominem, it's just name-calling.

>>22113051
>You have a fallacy just now
ESL? Also what exact fallacy are you accusing me of? The “misrepresentation fallacy”? Topkek.

>>22113123
You have made*. Just can't be bothered to type because you're clearly retarded

>>22113031
What, the Crusades weren't warlike enough for you?
Also, the Old Testament is almost completely about God leading his followers to military victory, where they get to capture much cattle, slaves, and bushels of grains.

>>22113038
Have fun receiving medical treatments that haven’t been vetted by the peer review process

>>22113127
Ad hominem. You simultaneously spew accusations of invented fallacies and commit real ones in every post.

>>22108445
I watched some of his lectures
He makes some interesting points but has a tendency to euhemerize everything

Josephus = Saul is something I am sussy about

>>22111133
what kind of radiaton, then.

>>22112266
behold the product:
simple judaism for half-retarded goyim who are homosexuals and love roman mens cum.

>>22113123
lawl keksworth, my lad, you're getting your shit pushed in here hahaha are you ready to stop pretending anybody who corrects you is "one person"? probably not, huh, knowing your psychological make-up and all.

>>22113141
>the Crusades weren't warlike enough for you
They were utterly pointless eneavors to gain a trade post on the end of the chinese silk and spice roads, but nobody told the foederati about this so when they did finally manage to capture jerusalem they did nothing with the land and promptly lost it.

>>22111133
>The radiation from Christ's resurrection

...

>>22112880
>>the bible is the fakest thing ever
>>except for (ellis)
Yes, as we all know the bible has been edited and cut and spun countless times by countless unknown authors since day 1, same tor the torah and tanak. It's utterly baseless for that very obvious reason which is evident to anybody.

Ellis, on the other hand, is studying the actual people themselves of who the stories were most likely based on or came from before they were cut and edited.

>>that's the real part because it goes against the bible
This is your supposition. I think knowing the actual Jesus or Paul or Solomon suddenly lends those names far more credibility, as they have none otherwise.

It's kind of like:
that you know of a Roman Emperor and think he was cool because he shot lightning bolts out of his arse and you very much like this story, and you're aggravated and disturbed to learn he didn't do that but did far more interesting Grown Up stuff instead like financial reforms which people in his life time very much liked him for and was the only reason he was ever liked by anybody in his own lifetime.

>>22113008
>ad hominem does not really do any of these things
I'm aware it's the academic and political culture to deny the reality of this in a general sense; to keep-in-place certain unprovable (corincientally far-reaching criminal) absurdisms of their own... but no, petty-minded ad hominem is obviously not a refutation of a case and obviously does reveal that the opponent has no means or proof to refute the case.

>if your argument is correct it doesn't matter if you call the other guy a retard or not
disagree. As: you're not calling "him/them" a retard, you're making an appeal to the audience that 'they' must associate (that person/claim/case) with something negative; it's a stage-play, a bad faith act, a sophistry, etc.

>the only thing it does is make him less likely to accept your argument
Well you're not trying to convince him because you know you can't, hence it's an appeal to the audience to sidestep any kind of discussion. HENCE if you could discuss the thing and prove your case or even make some points o were legitimately interested 'in' the subject rather than your dogma 'on' the subject .. then you 'would'. Political bias. An ad hominem tells us a lot about the person making it.

..hypothetical "you and him" of course.

>>22113076
>Don't use words you don't understand. Name-calling isn't ad hominem, it's just name-calling.
Don't use words you don't understand. It is "ad hominem" because it is not "ad res."

>>22113076
>Don't use words you don't understand. Name-calling isn't ad hominem, it's just name-calling.
Don't use words you don't understand. It is "ad hominem" because it is not "ad res."

or.. rather more accurately:
>> It is "ad hominem" because it is not "ad res."
*It is ad hominem the moment it diverts from ad res.

And it's very transparent, you know, when you've studied these particular things you can spot it immediately and ... lol ... constantly.

>>22113076
incidentally bucko, if you are cursed to have been influenced by a lethargic professor or somebody who taught you that it was fine to talk-shit about other people and all things in general then you're long overdue to face the facts that your professor was nothing but a demagogue appealing to your ignorance and successfully leading you astray, not unlike a certain character in that play by aristophanes.

>>22111080
>accountability of the peer-review process
lol you had me going for a second

>>22108445
The Biblical Jesus narrative is a conflation of multiple stories.

The real Christ figure was Radomir who came to try to persuade the Jews away from following the snake demon Yahweh's plan for world conquest as laid out in Deuteronomy.

Most Jews rejected Radomir's Vedic teachings. Those who understood and accepted came up with Gnosticism - a simplified version of the more complete Aryan spiritual reality - more suitable for comprehension to the twisted and ignoble Jewish mind.

The current biblical narrative we're experiencing will culminate in a short period of Jewish world gov't before a collapse into appalling chaos as those without a consciousness fit for the new earth 'purge' themselves. Expect Moshiach to be anointed in early 2028.

Do not take the mark. Do not accept the new documents. Do not accept the new passports. Do not engage with the new 'Beast' system in any way. This will likely all be over before 2033

>>22113141
The OT is a book of Jewish racial supremacy - as they do their will of their demonic reptilian master Yahweh

The NT is a corruption of the story of Radomir's attempt to lead the Jews away from their demonic path and hellish karma

Melding the two together is an abomination. The spirit of each stands in direct opposition. Modern Christianity is the glue by which this ugly and perverse union is held together.

>>22108445
Is it true his name wasn't even really jesus??

>>22114349
>>22114358
>Gnos
No doubt they believed this at the time but it doesn't make it so.

>>22114809
bot says what? AI says hi?

>>22108445
Look I'm reading four other books right now but all I really want to know is does this say he was a priest-king who knew magic or is it all materialism and Da Cultists made everything up?

>>22114843
hello meat [assessing] your value is approx. $08.23 [cordial] "what" "hi" [end communications]

>>22111119
That was a highly fought over page where now anti-theists have control. There are plenty of well-reasoned explanations that the page just waives off as incorrect because not everyone agrees.

I dont even believe in its legitimacy, but that page is a political battleground moreso than a vehicle for the truth.

>>22114900
>>22111119
why exactly would you think that Jesus would emit a radioactive glow? You don't get superpowers from having radiation sickness.

Imagine still trying to come up with a historical Jesus after Albert Schweitzer put the final nail in that coffin over a hundred years ago.

>>22114349
So you don't believe in, "The Biblical Jesus narrative," but you do believe in the Apocalypse of John?
Why do you suppose one to be trustworthy and the other not?

>>22108445
I went down this rabbithole before it's bullshit a lot of it

>>22114349
>Vedic teachings
That explains the Abraham/Sarah = Brahman/Saraswati connection.

>>22114900
>>22112251
>International multidisciplinary research team
>Missed the fact that sample came from patch job rather than the shroud proper
Doubt it. People motivated by scientific curiosity have moved on from the shroud. The only people trying to prove it is authentic these days are too invested in it to be trustworthy. Just look at the "pollen analysis" or "flax-based dating" or whatever else they publish, the fact is that the church knows its all bullshit which is why they aren't letting anyone do another round of carbon dating.

>>22116371
Also, lie down and do the pose Jesus is doing. It requires you to raise both shoulders in a highly unnatural way, there's no way his hands could have covered his genitals like that.
>rigor mortis
No, the body in pic isn't doesn't even match the shroud but its obvious how ridiculous it would be for Jesus to have held that pose. Compare it to any other case of rigor mortis. Rigor mortis isn't moldable either.

>>22116371
>People motivated by scientific curiosity
Don't be ridiculous, scientists are mostly motivated by their hatred of religion. That doesn't mean the shroud is but fake though.

>>22108445
>>22108898
Why are kikes so obvious to spot.

>>22116398
I thought he was supposed to have gone to heaven? how is his corpse there to be glitterbombed and face-painted?

>>22116438
i don't know, you simplified jew. why don't you read the kike book of kike mythology and meditate to the god of the kikes about why you blame kikes for everything.

>>22116425
>Scientists are mostly motived by their hatred of religion
No, laughably no. And even if most were, the ones researching the shroud were largely Christian, they were just not hacks.

>>22116425
You thought wrong

>>22116456
he's right, this anon,

>>22116425
>the shroud is but fake though.
THE SHROUD IS BUTT-FAKE. THE MOST OBVIOUS KIND OF FAKE. BUTT-FAKE.
word of the day

>>22116425
>shroud
This was always fake though, it never existed and was the western schism version of the image of edessa (the mud pack thing that King Abgarus was given for no reason); there being at least three original "shrouds" gave this away.

>>22116446
Kek

>Christcucks unironically still bring up Jesus's fabled cumrag in discussions as if it somehow makes them look less delusional

>>22116446
Why do you blame God for everything plebbitor.

>>22108445
Could it be that this book is about a different guy name Yeshua, or whatever Jesus' name was originally?

When did this board become such a /pol/dump

>>22116493
why do you displace criticism of your character and dogma onto God?
why do you pretend this criticism is from a foreign website?

some things we can know.

>>22108445
>>22116499
>>22110403
>Edessa
I listened to a lot of this today...

IN BRIEF, RE: EDESSA ONLY
The idea on Edessa is that the historical Jesus was the King of Edessa (a Hyksos descendant vassal-kingdom - partly Hellenized since Alexander) or the crown-prince of Edessa (the son of Agbarus I suppose) who was attempting to annex Judea and/or had provoked or been partly responsible or was attempting to restore order to those Roman Provinces during the Year of the Four Emperors. Vespasian saw this as another challenge, or it was another challenge as King Jesus was making a play for the Eastern Empire (like Zenobia) during the chaos, and Vespasian defeated King Jesus who was crucified as a rebel with the survivors of his army and left to rot along the road; displayed in his crown and the imperial colours, so people could see him. The historical crown of Edessa was the "crown of thorns" and Jesus, as part of his claim, was seeking to become the new King of Judea.

Josephus, who was being employed by the Vespasians at that point, and his retinue went to investigate the battlefield; or Josephus himself had fought in the battle, and found three survivors; he recognized Jesus who he knew (Titus Vespasian had already married Jesus's sister or some relation to the Edessan Royal Family), and he ordered Jesus and the other two cut down, they were, the other two died but Jesus survived and ended up in Alexandria as a hostage; renouncing his claims and staying in Roman custody to ensure that Edessa wouldn't rebel again.

These accounts, thus far, are true and reported; there was a King Jesus and this did occur as Josephus reports. They took place in 70AD and Ellis's assertion, as others have also mentioned, is that the date for the bible story (as was) was pushed backwards to blur things later on - probably centuries later on.

There's lots of peripheral points around this also, the Templars first move was against Edessa suggesting they suspected something was there.


Also, Jesus "of Galilee" and "Galilean" is described as referring not to the Jews per se but to the Priests of Gali, i.e. the eunuch priests who wandered around dressed in womens clothes, hiding swords under them and butchering whoever they pleased - according to Josephus again. I think James is supposed to have been one of these characters supporting Jesus in his claim. Jesus may or may not have been an initiate (i.e. gelded) into the order after the Mount of Olives, it would be unlikely if he was a crown-prince. The later church, it is mentioned, mimic the Gali priests in their clothing and many rituals.


Bearing in mind also that Josephus has no knowledge of anything about anything called a Christian or Jesus as a prophet, but is relating this of his own times.

>>22110521
retards will say it doesn't matter but not having any academic background essentially negates his entire book. you can' t write an academic essay or research nowadays without the education and experience to back it up. There's nothing separating this guy from anyone else who wants to write about this.

>>22116630
Stfu plebtard. Seek God or burn in hell.

>>22108445
>Ellis latest research reveals who Jesus was, where he lived, and who his family were. Visit his city, see the ruins of his citadel, gaze upon his statue, handle his coins
Kek

>>22116881
why do you displace criticism of your character and dogma onto God?
why do you pretend this criticism is from a foreign website?
why do you name your own ego 'God'?

Don't you know that you're burning in hell at this very moment?

>>22116880
>you can' t write an academic essay or research nowadays without the education and experience to back it up. There's nothing separating this guy from anyone else who wants to write about this.
When the christcuck is cowering behind the evil atheists you know they're in trouble.

>>22110521
>academia is evil and controlled by women, Jews, blacks, etc.
>but no wait you have to be an academic to do biblical research… wait stop! Conform! Conform!
The absolute state of the christcuck brain.

>>22108445
I (an atheist) don't understand why so many atheists try to prove Jesus was actually another person. It doesn't convince anyone. The initial chapters of Luke which make up a contrived story about John baptizing Jesus and another about how Jesus of Nazareth was actually born in Bethlehem are clear evidence of damage control on the part of early Christians. They wouldn't make that up unless they had to.

>>22117072
I don't think atheism needs to have anything to do with it, as I mentioned yesterday: >>22111988
>Ellis is making it interesting and you're grossly undervaluing this

I mean, you figured out the bible is full of trash due to over-editing and coming from a pack of rabid barbarians who were primitive savages into bodily mutilation and had a depraved yet inept god and a culture with no human accomplishments and so were least likely of all people on earth to have any insights about the divine; congrats for figuring all that out, but then what? You just sit idle and aren't at all curious what might have inspired all of this in the first place? Especially with things like Solomon and the history of Ancient Egypt.

>>22117072
From the so-called 'theist/christian' point of view I struggle to wrap my mind around the cretinitude of their position against inquiry on things like this... if I legitimately cared for a subject I wouldn't just go with something I was told once and become hostile to learn anything new about it. It's certainly not a reality based mentality... and even worse if they claim to believe that these people were God/s or inspired by God, as they display no interest in learning anything about that inspiration or God at all. It demonstrates that their 'faith' (which is a dubious claim given their gleefully viceful character) is not at all on anything divine but just on some man-made dogma which serves as some special ethnic thing for them,

ironically they resemble more and more the "evil jews" that they like to displace all of these traits on... which isn't all that surprising really, if you've spent 5 yrs reading useful real-world subjects like psychology rather than reading up on single lines from babies fables like a cretin (french. christian).


That's my view anyway; it's funny to find a christian and an atheist both thinking inquiry into the historical basis for jesus leads a person to atheism. Do you both just already know the whole "it's literally god!" bit is bullshit but only one of you won't admit it? lol

thank you anon,you've affirmed something I said here last week at how both christians and atheists re 'as bad' as each other, but that the atheist was at least 'interested' in being honest whereas the christian is not; for making denialism to inquiry a matter of habit.

>>22114349
>>22115925
You don't have to believe he was God but these Christ myth/"alternative Christ" conspiracies are legitimately flat-earth-tier retarded. Hell similarly to flat-earthers they have this annoying combination of being patently dumb as fuck but trying to mask it with pseudointellectual nonsense.

And before some fedora responds by calling Christianity no less plausible, the difference is Christianity is a religious faith that admits its element of belief and not trying to use pseudo-anthropology to justify a historical assertion.

>>22117223
Christ myth isn't a conspiracy theory, there's really no good evidence for Jesus.

>>22117223
>legitimately flat-earth-tier retarded.
Yes, that whole thing you sincerely believed in last week because a fast-talking high-pitched voiced american teenager convinced you of in a youtube video was pretty fucking retarded wasn't it :)

>And before some fedora responds by calling Christianity no less plausible
How is this the case? Would you be feeling these feels if somebody looked at, say, the mythos of Caeculus of Preneste and observed that he wasn't a fire-breathing superhero but a bandit leader? Would anybody insist that he breathed fire? Would the historical reality of Caeculus be responded to by you in the same way?

>pseudo
meaningless ad hominem of the week

>anthropology
what anthropology isn't a jewish conspiracy in your mind?

>intellectualism
what plain logic isn't offensive to someone who has built their house on the sand? and "what terror and enmity isn't caused by fear and guilt of being in the wrong?" (marcus valerius martialis in paraphrasis)

>>22111135
If he wasn't radioactive, how did he get superpowers?

>>22117281
Blood magic

>>22117271
There's pretty reasonable evidence for Jesus. But there's also extraordinarily good evidence for Lucius Caecilius Iucundus and that has not stopped anyone making up stories about his cook.

>>22117288
I guess bread magic doesn't sound as cool

>>22117291
>There's pretty reasonable evidence for Jesus
The best evidence (Josephus) was tampered with by Christians. Interpolation is a cute name for compromised.

>>22117291
>>22117299
In fairness Martial does mention what are probably Christians in 90AD, when he describes Jews convincing simple-minded people into giving them their money and believing in unbelievable fables. Most of the evidence for early Christians after Jesus has to be derived when close mentions of "jews" and "idiots" are placed together to discern the peculiar identity of this early unimportant minority religious sect.

They also wore bags over their penises in the baths in this era and they often fell off to reveal the hideous mutilation.

>>22117313
There's evidence of Christians or at least Proto-Christians, that's true.

>>22117299
>No I want the standard to be especially high for this one figure
A lot of Christian figures of later centuries we have absolute definitive proof they never existed. We have pretty good records for Jesus, which is why we can tell a lot of his life story sounds like a common personality cult for lots of minor political upstarts in the region at the time. The guy probably existed and isn't entirely a fictional character dreamt up by a fanfiction collective 300 years later.

I still lean toward Christianity being at least mostly true. The arguments against Christianity aren’t very convincing.

>>22117322
>We have pretty good records for Jesus
We really don't. I assume you're including the gospel narratives as evidence. They're anything but reliable, even scholars who believe he existed acknowledge that, like Bart Ehrman.
>and isn't entirely a fictional character dreamt up by a fanfiction collective 300 years later
But it's really telling when the earliest sources on him, the Pauline epistles, quite literally say that he was seen in a dream.

>>22117331
>Source: I pulled it out of my ass

>>22108445
jesus was caesarion and an avatar you fucking idiot, it doesn't matter what physical form he took

this is like arguing about whether or not kalki shaves his pubes

>>22117322
>The guy probably existed and isn't entirely a fictional character dreamt up by a fanfiction collective 300 years later.
If so then you run into the mythological problem where so much stuff of his story reads as a verbatim borrow from various pagan mythologies. That stuff is definitely not true for instance, but that's the "mainstream jesus" which nobody believes already and that had to have been cobbled together t impress the broader society by anchoring jesus to various things they'd already have been aware of, e.g. "jesus is like apollo, jesus is like [parthian apollo]"etc. That's the ...
>fictional character dreamt up by a fanfiction collective 300 years later
for sure.

BUT this fan fic had to have a basis in the first place to demand all of this work go into it, surely because the reality of whatever happened was important to people for some reason and the memory or names had lingered on. It only makes sense to go back and study the histories to figure out the origin of that.

I hadn't encountered Edessa in any great detail until last week, I'm disappointed that nobody has tied in King Aeneas of Petra and his military defeat of Herod yet and chasing Paul around Syria. Probably it's tied in somewhere. nobody knows the entire truth i think.

>>22116305
no shit the real jews are aryans and did nothing wrong

>>22117372
If anything the gospels are evidence against him. Especially Luke, who also flat-out copied Josephus' autobiography to describe Paul's adventures:

https://www.jesusneverexisted.com/road-to-rome.htm

>>22117385
to believe jesus never existed is to think the shemsu hor were just playing pretend

what kind of gorilla are you?

>>22112852
what's with the crayons, i never understood why people would eat them and why I see this concept so often

>>22117385
There's so much bullshit in Luke it's mindboggling. Ironically he's called the "historian"

>>22109189
Science doesn’t make room for theophanies or miracles and the teleology of Christianity being true necessitates a retvrn via repentance, something unapologetic moderns possessed by demons are not happy to do. The implications of the reality of Christian account being true is something find unbearable and intolerable.

>>22117389
Take your meds.

>>22117024
Christians don’t believe academia is inherently evil you schizophrenic.

> had to have a basis in the first place to demand all of this work go into it,
although........ the newly minted imperial roman church had by that point been given the economic power of half of every province across the roman empire and their ability to be elites was pretty much dependent on having a state religion so..

>>22117394

>>22117397
This. Academia is only evil when they disagree with us.

>>22117385
Even trivial stuff like "Render unto Caesar" provides numismatic evidence showing how certain events were just literary fabrications in the gospels:
>(...) the passage is either anachronistic or is conflating a tax imposed from another region than Palestine. If it refers to a tax imposed at a later date, it could be because Mark (the first gospel in which it appears) was composed after 70 CE, which was the earliest time that such a tax was imposed in Palestine. If it is from another region, it could be because Christians in those areas were struggling with the issue of whether they should pay Roman taxes [1], and the authors of the NT Gospels felt the need to address the question, by spuriously placing a saying on the lips of Jesus that he actually never spoke.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220309060933/https://celsus.blog/2018/01/12/numismatic-evidence-that-corroborates-suetonius-life-of-otho-and-contradicts-the-gospels/

>>22117374
A source for what? I posted an opinion lmao.

>>22117397
>schizophrenic
projection from the claim against you

>Christians don’t believe academia is inherently evil
muh dinosaurs not real, muh sex education bad, muh sun floats above the flat earth, muh JEWZ, muh christian morals, muh censorship of the human body and strong words, muh fearmongering,muh paranoia, muh patriotism (but i hate them deist 1700'ers and them 1600'er reformationists), muh non evidenced based world view, muh hatred of other peoples non evidenced based world view which i cannot point out the error in thinking of co i am doing it muhself all day long, muh jeebs, muh holey land, muh sanitation a lie, muh hand washing bad, muh special thick underpants

...
sorry its late here

>>22117420
"dinosaur" is just what cucks call dragons
sex education is a plank of the communist manifesto
flat earth is plato's allegory of the cave
the real jews are hellenic pagans
christian morals are don't act like a n*****
i would go on but you should just die and go to hell already, your life is very tiresome

>>22117427
but n***** what you just said is 100% n*****

>>22117427
>the real jews are hellenic pagans
nothign worse than a kike worshiping platonist who believes in dragons, is hung up on sex, thinks the earth is flat and believes he isn't a piece of shit white trash for having these opinions.

>>22117440
this shilling is pathetic, may we speak to your manager?

>>22117372
Inconsistent but not a complete fabrication. Don't appeal to Ehrman like he's a mythicist. If anything, inconsistency in the gospels supports there being a historical jesus, since if the gospels were written by a unified conspiracy they'd have their accounts straight. Instead, we get successive embellishments of a core story which is what you'd expect given the circumstances

>>22117448
>may we speak to your manager
please hold.

>>22117331
As in Jesus being a historical jewish cult leader? Most likely. As in Jesus being the son of God? Not a chance!

>>22117463
jesus was literally a blue-eyed aryan druid, are you illiterate?

>>22117495
roma invicta

>>22117456
>Don't appeal to Ehrman like he's a mythicist.
Kek I literally said he believes Jesus existed. Here's Ehrman himself explaining why the gospel accounts aren't reliable btw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AymnA526j9U
As for a "unified" conspiracy, you don't need to go that far. All it takes is one person to start a rumour and other people join in to add their "version" of the story. Textual criticism of the bible points to Mark being the original and others adding to it over time (Marcan priority, the most accepted hypothesis by biblical scholars).

>>22117519
Not being reliable has nothing to do with fabricating. The Pauline epistles and the Gospels all affirm the existence of Jesus, along with Josephus and Tacitus.

>>22117586
We already went through that, anon. Paul literally says he saw Jesus in a dream, the gospel narratives are full of misinformation and contradictions. Tacitus is a 2nd century work too, he only wrote down what he got from second-hand sources. You can dig as much as you want, there's too little about Jesus where there should be much more considering how big of an event his trial and crucifixion was, which is one of the few things scholars tend to agree was historical about his life.

>>22117607
>How big an event
Not very big. It was one of many crucifixions. John the Baptist gets around the same treatment, a bit better attested if you discount testimony flavium being based on an existing passage.
>Paul literally says he saw Jesus in a dream
Paul literally says he saw Jesus's brother. Jesus's family, siblings and mother, are all attested to in the Gospels.
>Too little about Jesus
Why do you people seem to think there a preponderance of documentation about Judaea ? Especially about a sect that spent its formative years in hiding.
>Gospel is full of misinformation
They align with Paul on Jesus's existence.

>>22117671
Jesus's trial and crucifixion was allegedly presided by the governor of Judaea, Pontius Pilate. Such an event would've been anything but an ordinary crucifixion. Paul claims to have met James, Peter, and John aka the pillars of the church but not the twelve or, you know, the person who actually matters to this discussion. Josephus may or may not have had a preexisting passage about Jesusz but since the text has been corrupted and the oldest manuscript we have dates to the 11th century or something we'll never know. It's your choice whether to trust the few sources we have on Jesus or not but you can't reasonably say any of them is reliable, especially not the ones written by people trying to promote the religion.

>>22117700
Pontius Pilate could easily be a later embellishment. Again, Jesus is as well attested as John the Baptist. Paul met Jesus's brother, you claim it doesn't have to be a unified conspiracy, but if there are fake blood relatives it really does. I trust the sources because they make the narrative of Jesus the cult leader make sense.

>>22109189
anglo-protestant schizophrenia regarding jesuits mixed with german historical criticism

>>22117271
>there's really no good evidence for Jesus
Christian sources
>Gospels + Acts
>Paul
>Didache
>Apostolic Fathers
>Apocrypha (Ebionites, Hebrews, Protoevangelium)
Non-Christian sources
>Josephus on James, corroborating John the Baptist's execution, and the presumable embellishment of the passage on Jesus
>Tacitus
>Suetonius
>Pliny
>Phlegon
>Thallus
>Cerinthus and the Gnostics
>the Mandaeans
There is exponentially more evidence for Jesus than pretty much every other ancient historical figure people take for granted.

>>22117793
>>22117885
>retard listing people talking about christians a century later as if their existence is proof that jesus existed
lol did you just google those names without reading the accounts?

>>22117909
>a century later
Tacitus and Suetonius were within the lifetime of the Apostles. You also don't use this retarded double-standard for any figure other than Jesus.

>>22108445
he stated that Jesus was the son of Cleopatra in an earlier book

>>22117914
>apostles
you mean the guys peddling the story about a rabbi who raised from the dead?
tacitus and suetonius wrote around 120 about jews following some chrestus dude they didn't know shit about
you're a fucking idiot if you think they had any substantial information about him
also the other historical figures have way more evidence for them than jesus, archeological evidence which is better than some quick passage that you don't even know if it's legit

>>22117964
>around 120
Which is when the same time the New Testament was still being written so that doesn't prove anything about it being "too late" to a Christian.
>you're a fucking idiot if you think they had any substantial information about him
Tacitus literally says Jesus was real and killed by Pontius Pilate, who was a politician in living memory that everyone would have known if he was making shit up about. He has obvious scorn for Christians but he doesn't deny that the guy they came from was actually put to death by one of their politicians.

Also Josephus literally corroborates the Gospels' account of the death of John the Baptist, in addition to corroborating James and Jesus, in addition to corroborating Jesus in a way that someone between Origen and Eusebius embellished for rhetoric. But you're a 95 IQ lowercase poster so none of this will matter to you.

>>22114900
Just like the former 'cultural marxism' page I'd imagine

>>22117223
Nope. The Radomir Christ paired with the Fomenko 1000 year timeline is correct. You will see.

>>22117376
>where so much stuff of his story reads as a verbatim borrow from various pagan mythologies.
A lot more of the story is about political unrest at the time in the area. You seem to be really fixated on the sci-fi aspects and missing the larger part of accounts we have fit within Judea and its local politics of the time. The syncretic parts of the religion are really much later, while even things like the letters from apostles after Jesus's death seem to have been stripped of their political meaning for you. There's really very few supernatural miracles in the gospels and for a lot of the evangelists the last thing on earth they wanted was for the Corinthians to start thinking Jesus was like Dionysus.

>>22114346
See >>22113144

>>22118315
>re: pagan christian crossover comics issues 9-291
I just know this and am long bored of it; needless to say those "miracles" (esp the crazy untrue stories during the persecution of the christian decades) are some of the most damaging to a person to learn about lol - it' like figuring out any propaganda story was a lie, then you doubt the entire thing. very stupid of them to have made those things up.

>politics of the time
That's what I was saying, yes, the story Ellis put forward is far more interesting all around and takes the character out of the "100% unreal" into the realm of plausibility so that the reader who discounted the OT or NT as a total fiction wouldn't be inclined to do that.

I realize the christians would be the strongest opposition against this, whilst atheists probably wouldn't care (as they already believe it's a total fiction and don't need more excuses for that lol), but... I don't know.. I guess my perspective, having been very interested in this, is more a historical one. I really do see the christian opposition as coming from a "no he wasn't a real man, he WAS a fiction," which is weird to me.

>>22118040
>Tacitus literally says Jesus was real and killed by Pontius Pilat
He doesn't say this; the paragraph in question doesn't match the paper and is jammed in there out of place. Why would Tacitus (who is a bit of a liar anyway like Suetonius) know about that? f anything people would have been far more aware of the general jewish rebellions before and (according to canon) after jesus; i.e. the constant military uprisings going on w/ legions being deployed and massive warfare occuring, which Jesus, in the 'canon' has nothing to do with.

>>22117914
> double-standard for any figure other than Jesus.
There's no reason to as nobody else is subjected to so much fakery and conflicting accounts in the first place, especially when the central claim of jesus being actual literal god is taken into account and insisted upon. Also the things he was saying and doing, we, later people, are looking at them far removed from any context to fit the narrative of later persons to which Jesus had then become a political icon to be held up by the roman empire post-constantine.

Jesus was a Rabbi for example, within the Jewish religion, speaking with Jews about the evils and errors of abramic theology; to reform those things which make sense (or are pertinent, meaningful, actionable) only a Jewish person raised in an abramic theocracy, and have no meaning for anybody else lol 'and' he was targeting his fellow priests with violence on occasion. This basic reality of the Jesus as he is in the gospels of the disciples is already well-removed from the bible story as it's given, for instance, Pauls Jesus is vastly different (another point, or maybe really the biggest source of contention and contradictions) from Jesus as he was.

>>22118040
>Also Josephus literally corroborates the Gospels'
Anon, Luke LITERALLY copied Josephus. It's not corroborating, it's ripping off.
>embellished for rhetoric
You're so disingenuous.

>>22118051

The Druids were Aryans. This word is usually narrowly conscrued to signify race; however, the term also refers to spiritual caste. It is also the true name of Ireland, correctly rendered Ariland or "Land of the Arya." The term can be correctly rendered Eri, signifying the earth goddess of the ancient Druids. Etymologically, ari and eri are found as roots in terms and names such as area, terra, Tara, Mary, Hera, Benares, Armenia, Aramaic, and aristocracy, etc. Names such as Terah (father of Abram) and the place-name Haran, are Irish. (Haran being synonymous with Aryan.) The epithets Iberian, Hibernian, Hebrides, Hebericum (old name of York), and Hebron, are equivalent to the Latinized Hyperborean, connoting Ireland and the Arctic Homeland. This is the true meaning of Eber (an ancestor of the Israelites), place-name and personal name Heber and Hebrew. The priests of the Nile - the Ibaru - took their name from the illustrious North-Western Arya. As the great Anna Wilkes tells us: "Hyperborea was unquestionably the lands of the Druid and Bard, whose religion was identical with that of the later Hebrews." The very word for a Druid - Bard - is the equivalent of Boreades or Boreas, meaning "north." The Ibaru were but one contingent of Westerners living in the Middle East. Related groups were the Luvians and Shemsu Hor (the Disciples of Horus). Evidence of their presence has been well and truly suppressed.

>>22119143

After Hyperborea sank, the locus of the remaining population moved into the Isles. It has been stated the Isles where part of Hyperborea that did not go under the waves. The evidence I have seen shows the Aryans came from the West/North and moved East.*

Who where the Druids? The Druids did not call themselves by such a name the name itself was a Gaelic title "Druthin" given to them by others, which means "servant of truth" which might have to do with the motto of the Druids which was: Y Gwir Erbyn Y Byd "Truth Against the World."

The Druids called themselves the "Naddreds" which is Gaelic for "Serpent Priests." The Druids or Naddreds held the symbol of the Serpent and Dragon in the highest honour as the symbol of royality. It was recorded the Druid Arphaxad refferred to himself as thus: "I am a Serpent."

In the ancient world was a Priesthood called the Kingly Serpents or Naga's in Sanskrit:
"The priests of the Mysteries were symbolized as a serpent, sometimes called Hydra...The Serpent Kings reigned over the earth. It was these Serpent Kings who founded the Mystery schools which later appeared as the Egyptian and Brahmin Mysteries... .The serpent was their symbol...They were the true Sons of Light, and from them have descended a long line of adepts and initiates." - Hall
What were the insignias of these Serpent Kings? "The three, five, seven, nine-headed snake is the totem of a race of ruler, (Brahmins/ Naddreds) who presided over the Aryan Hindus."-J.H. Baecker.

>>22114358
"the lord" is the internal monologue you imbecile

>>22119223
an internal monologue which tells you to kill your neighbors

>>22119143
>The Druids were Aryans.
They were very bad people. I wouldn't claim this if I were you.

>>22119394
>to kill your neighbors

THE POINT OF THE STORY IS THAT HE DIDN'T KILL BECAUSE KILLING IS WRONG, YOU IDIOT

>>22119398

>voice says verbatim "Do Not Kill"
>this means you should commit genocide

>>22119398
>>22119404
>>22119223
uh well you're trying to validate this entire cult due to some bulgarian guy called Radomir. I don't think so and I don't care in the least.

although,
>>22114358
>Melding the two together is an abomination. The spirit of each stands in direct opposition
this much is entirely true.

lol radomir

>>22108445

>6 independent sources of Jesus of Nazareth
>all btfo by a new authors jar analysis and in no way meant to shock and be controversial

>>22119681
> in no way meant to shock and be controversial
>(you have provoked these disgusting sociopaths into abusing you! your fault!)
if the lady is going to accuse you of rape for holding the door, you may as well just cosh her and drag her into the bathroom and have fun anyway, right

jm2c mfnly

>>22119681
>6 independent sources
lol

>>22110369
>3) makes your original claims indefensible
This is fallacious, known as the 'fallacy fallacy'. An argument is not wrong because it contains a fallacy, you FAG. See?

>>22109189
>YOUR A SCHIZO!!!!! BELIEVE IN MY FAIRY TALES RIGHT NOW!!!

>>22118580
If Jesus didn't exist there would be no different detailed accounts of him in the first place; there would just be no written record (like with other Messianic claimants) or one authoritative text if it were an attempt at a ruse. To believe there are several different accounts all in conspiracy with each other for no particular reason is bad faith schizoid shit no one believes in.

>>22118832
>Luke LITERALLY copied Josephus. It's not corroborating, it's ripping off.
The account corroborating John the Baptist is in all three synoptics, and literally no one believes Luke was the oldest. The historical-critical view is that Mark is the oldest (which doesn't even have much basis other than it being the shortest and the "simplest") and the traditional Christian view is that Matthew is the oldest. Luke using Josephus wouldn't even matter when Mark and Matthew say the same shit, unless you think all three of them were all conspiring on the same specifically indirect retelling of the same passage.

>>22118580
No one of note thinks the Tacitus or Suetonius passages are fake. It'd be an extremely fringe position if you wanted to take it, but then again denying Jesus at all is an incredibly fringe position that you only take because apparently the thought of him even just being an itinerant preacher is enough to make you seethe.

>>22119914
Just don't think he was divinely inspired. I don't think Muhammad was a prophet, but I admit he was a competent Arab warlord.

>>22112852
>1. No publisher name/logo on the front cover, 2. Author has no relevant credentials.
Sounds like LE BIBLE to me

>>22119904
it's hilarious when people defend the "verbal abuse" response in the middle of a debate or courtroom. ha what can i say, I already know you come from a heavily repressed society which prevents you from speaking your minds and you cum to relish in saying 'nigger retard' whenever you can. lawl

But look here, foederati,
It's not about fallacies: it's about not being able to argue your point because you are not able to do so + lacking intellectual honesty to concede and admit you were wrong.. or ..being fully aware that you 'are' wrong and engaging in disruption, etc. = (what you're defending) w/ no other path to that point.

Either way it's "not" a discussion of the topic at hand whenever it occurs, so it's deceptive and disruptive from the very beginning, even if the person doing it is legitimately mentally sick and is having the autistic meltdown.

>>22119930
>No one of note thinks the Tacitus or Suetonius passages are fake.
> It'd be an extremely fringe position if you wanted to take it,
That's just your opinion.

>denying Jesus at all is an incredibly fringe position that you only take
who is doing that?

oh lemme guess, you're responding to a political fantasy
> because apparently the thought of him even just being an itinerant preacher is enough to make you seethe


>>22119921
> bad faith schizoid shit no one believes in.
lol yes that does resemble your position, way to displace your inner anguish onto others there, st paul.

>If Jesus didn't exist
again, you're responding to a political fantasy. You ought have the brain power to understand that Ellis is suggesting that Jesus in fact did exist after all and was actually an accomplished person, vs. your insistence that Jesus was a mythological character in a fable.


religion vs history

>>22120014
I'm talking specifically about how the conversation evolved to the Christ Myth theory generally, not the book in the OP, which if >>22117936 is right about honestly so out there I don't even know how to engage it.

It'd be like saying Alexander the Great was the secret Emperor of China; it's so out-there there's no real entry point to logically grab onto and dismantle.

>>22120033
>which if >>22117936 is right
That's the Caesarion angle; where "Jesus" was the son of Caesar and Cleopatra, that's not Ellis's invention or anything new at all,

> the Christ Myth theory generally,
>it's so out-there there's no real entry point to logically grab onto and dismantle.
It's literally one of the oldest contentions in recent European history, since the first christian existed. As the actual claim is so out-there in the first place and as contradictory or neutral historical evidence is 1) destroyed on purpose by christians as heresies and 2) as there really aren't many accounts of Jesus that exist; which is weird, then the contention is of their making in the first place.

It's probably more likely he was an amalgamated myth, that is what he is to a christian, but the basis of jesus as an actual person is far more interesting. I'm just trying to get cross that Ellis is't actually debunking jesus here but making the entire story far more interesting.

>>22120033
>It'd be like saying Alexander the Great
it's morelike saying Alexander the Great wasn't a super hero who could move objects with his eyes, and that he was an accomplished albeit foolhardy macedonian general instead.

People do have myths in our world that Alexander was a supernatural being, you know. Have you seen that movie with Michael Caine as Peachy?

>>22119921
>John the Baptist
But where is the account corroborating JESUS OF NAZARETH? Oh wait minute, I know where, the Christians shoehorned it into Josephus' Antiquities, dumb fuck.
>(which doesn't even have much basis other than it being the shortest and the "simplest")
Based retard talking about things he knows nothing about.

>>22108445
You’re ever gonna clear out all your unsold inventory Ralph.

>>22120176
>Based retard talking about things he knows nothing about.
You're the one who apparently missed the memo on there being more than one reference to Jesus in Josephus, the other one regarded as fully authentic by virtually all academics. You know it's untampered because it says Jesus was "called Christ" whereas the Testimonium embellishment says Jesus "was Christ," which a high-ranking Jewish scribe like Josephus wouldn't say.

And even if there wasn't the other fully authentic reference, getting tripped up on the Testimonium being "forged" is the biggest midwit filter in Biblical Studies.

Remember that hilarious paper that "proved" that there was no firm historical evidence for Napoleon, and he was probably a myth? Is it online? Does anyone have a link to it?

>>22121180
>You know it's untampered because the other tampering isn't even trying to be convincing
Imagine being this naive. Everybody knows there are two references, the problem is that a tampered document is an unreliable document. Most scholars try hard not to discard it when common sense would compel any rational human being to do so, because said tampered document is of the few preserved records they have about 1st century Jewish squabbles. This is the deplorable state of their field.
Moreover, Josephus also spends more time talking about a nameless Egyptian insurrectionist than Jesus even if you take into account the obvious interpolation. It's almost like Josephus knew nothing about this Jesus guy or something.
>And even if there wasn't the other fully authentic reference, getting tripped up on the Testimonium being "forged" is the biggest midwit filter in Biblical Studies.
Ironic statement considering "Biblical Studies" itself is a midwit field. Seldom do biblical scholars care about the truth of a matter, it's all about consensus and preserving the status quo upon which they've built their entire careers. Your implicit appeal to authority only shows hon8vwjpw little you know about the topic.
>I'm a huge faggot who's literally googling these things on the fly and talking out of my ass, by the way.
Yes, I know you are, but props to you for admiting it.

>>22109189
The Bible induces schizophrenia. Whether you want to conclude that's by design or by accident is up to you.

>>22121351
>Seldom do biblical scholars care about the truth of a matter, it's all about consensus and preserving the status quo upon which they've built their entire careers.
That's why they get so triggered by Christ mythicists.

>>22121365
Pretty much.

>>22121351
I'll appeal to people who have spent decades studying the actual texts way more than annoying bad-faith fedoras playing mental gymnastics because even the thought of an itinerant preacher getting killed makes them seethe and they have to come up with insane mental gymnastics to pretend he is a conspiracy.

There could be literally any evidence and you'd still come up with some asspull to be a faggot and deny it because Jesus apparently scares you so bad.

so what's the deal with jesus mysteriously appearing from the dead after several days?

>>22121561
>so what's the deal with jesus mysteriously appearing from the dead after several days?
a) the god of the jews took his corpse away and sent him back from heaven to appear as a ghost in random places a few times, primarily to scare st paul / chalkedon-nikaea canon version
b) >>22116732 see 2nd para. / edessa theory
c) he was never scourged and put on a cross in the first place / gospel of thomas version
d) (make-up what you prefer) / most peoples view inc. a)
e) nothing even happened at all and all the characters and stories were made-up centuries later / remains a possibility due to the huge borrowing from preexisting mythos of the acts in the story which is admitted by later christians who shrug it off (but this "borrowing/copying" remains true whether jesus existed or not, due to later story writing subsuming his real character)

Most people go with d) I think, and don't know very much about it other than the 'myth' itself. I should add that the textual evidence for c) is quite compelling however. In terms of pure history itself I think Edessa is a very strong theory, almost as strong as e) which I've gone with, that is that: he did exist but we can say almost nothing of him as his story has been subject to so much editing - and contradictory proclamations by paul who "differs" greatly from "what jesus said" on over 100 points.

If you know that the origin of "jesus for the gentiles" comes via paul then this makes so much more sense as to how contradictory opinions came into being that differed so much from the reformed judaism of the apostles, how these contradictions just laid there without anyone even knowing about it, and then how they became mainline christianity under the romans with those errors unresolved.

>>22121561
>so what's the deal with jesus mysteriously appearing from the dead after several days?
a) the god of the jews took his corpse away and sent him back from heaven to appear as a ghost in random places a few times, primarily to scare st paul / chalkedon-nikaea canon version
b) >>22116732 see 2nd para. / edessa theory
c) he was never scourged and put on a cross in the first place / gospel of thomas version
d) (make-up what you prefer) / most peoples view inc. a)
e) nothing even happened at all and all the characters and stories were made-up centuries later / remains a possibility due to the huge borrowing from preexisting mythos of the acts in the story which is admitted by later christians who shrug it off (but this "borrowing/copying" remains true whether jesus existed or not, due to later story writing subsuming his real character)

Most people go with d) I think, and don't know very much about it other than the 'myth' itself. I should add that the textual evidence for c) is quite compelling however. In terms of pure history itself I think Edessa is a very strong theory, almost as strong as e) which I've gone with, that is that: he did exist but we can say almost nothing of him as his story has been subject to so much editing - and contradictory proclamations by paul who "differs" greatly from "what jesus said" on over 100 points.

If you know that the origin of "jesus for the gentiles" comes via paul then this makes so much more sense as to how contradictory opinions came into being that differed so much from the reformed judaism of the apostles, how these contradictions just laid there without anyone even knowing about it, and then how they became mainline christianity under the romans with those errors unresolved... which brings us to basically e) with the difference of "he did exist as a real man" but that "he was primarily and most popularly known as a mythology character to people via paul, whereas the apostles may or may not have recognized this," (and apparently those 'jews' disliked paul greatly so.. ).

>>22116732
>70AD
40-70AD rather

ed.
>>22121699
>>22121698
also, i should add,
>e) nothing even happened at all

Emperor Julian held this view and he was raised by bishops in Constantines Household; if there was 'something more' or "some secret story" ... well there's no reason he or constantines family would have been told about it or anybody would have known about it i suppose .... he wold have been aware of it, he does talk about "secret interpretations (of the story of jesus) as he believes" and this refers entirely to the borrowed mythology which we notice.

the e) isn't the greatest answer of course but it is the simplest.

i will definitely be reading this, but its not like i needed it to know that this whole cult is based on retarded fearmongering bullshit some faggots made up that was never meant to be taken literally in the first place
t. ex christcuck
europe should have remained pagan
and it feels good not feeling like a giant sky man has a gun to my head 24/7 and i can just live my life

christcunts damage controlling hard while acting smug and posting snoyboys, do they not realize the irony of it all? they have BECOME the snoy
>um sweaty you need credentials
you've never needed that shit for anything other than to "prove" yourself to retards who've been programmed to not take you seriously unless you spend years paying kikes for a shit curriculum for a piece of paper that "qualifies" you as a smart goy
i shouldnt be surprised christniggers fall back on this crap, they are the original moralniggers after all, just like the neurotic trannies they hate so much
two sides same shekel

>>22109189
The Catholic Church is a corrupt institution that launders money, harbors pedophiles, has links with Masonic lodges such as Propaganda Due, and has been killing actual Christians for centuries. The reason so many Christians call out the Vatican is because they are Babylon from the Book of Revelation, seated on seven hills, dressed in scarlet and purple, drunk with the blood of the saints, are filled with sexual immorality (idolatry, and literal sexual immorality). They are an evil institution.

With Jesus, it’s mainly because the sin in the schizos makes the demons act up

>>22121553
>I'll appeal to people who have spent decades studying the actual texts way more than annoying bad-faith fedoras playing mental gymnastics because even the thought of an itinerant preacher getting killed makes them seethe and they have to come up with insane mental gymnastics to pretend he is a conspiracy.
That's a lot of ad hominems, you sound upset.
>There could be literally any evidence
Unfortunately (for you) there isn't any.

>>22122176
>That's a lot of ad hominems, you sound upset.
You started the ad hominems in >>22120176 and >>22121351.

>The entirety of Biblical Studies can't be trusted!
>The Catholics are agents of the Freemasons!
>EVROPA should have stayed BASED and PAGAN
this thread sure did attract the schizoids it was making fun of lol

>>22118554
>(esp the crazy untrue stories during the persecution of the christian decades
Those ones aren't even the crazy ones. Flying saints are a thing from when circumnavigation of the globe was possible.
>far more interesting
Not really.

>>22122672
>doesn't even know what an ad hominem is
sad

>>22122675
Tell me you're not white without telling me you're not white.

>>22122675
protip: being a bible thumper and telling people about your conglomeration of evil fantasies about men who claimed to have voices in their head telling them things, then accusing others of schizophrenia comes across as total insanity on your part.

+ cognitive impairment to not be already be self-aware of this.

>>22122699
congregatio de propaganda fide ‘congregation for propagation of the faith’

There's a good study there in the origins of propaganda; verbatim in the narrative style, with the catholic church. Especially clownish atrocity propaganda, victim-status-seeking and total demonization of the targets; actually blowing them up to be great monsters.

>>22123104
>verbatim in the narrative style
>IT'S TEXT BASED ADVERTURING!
you know sometimes you can oversell reading something and make it seem like you don't really care what words are?

What the fuck is going on in this thread

>>22108445
It’s another
>I’VE CRACKED THE CODE, JESUS IS JUST <insert schizo theory #47282638>, I’M SMARTER THAN ALL OF YOU BECAUSE I’VE FIGURED HIM OUT
episode. How unique. It’s so unbelievably tiring. No, you haven’t figured him out. Stop.

>>22123155
yeah it's called precision, people sometimes use lots of words to save you having to waste your cells on "what exactly is the thing he's talking about,"

yawn

could you not guess or were you trying to demoralize me or negatively associate the content of the message?

> verbatim in the narrative style
i.e. word for word, act for act, sequence for sequence,
>verbatim in the narrative style
>clownish atrocity propaganda, victim-status-seeking and total demonization of the targets
as well as equating the targets with sexual perverts, something you ought sympathize with, being gay and all ha

>>22123160
Pseud fedoras getting mad they're getting outed as pseud fedoras.

>>22123160
One of the usual three christian trolls engaging in constant ad hominem to disrupt the discussion. You can tell the type >>22123328 by the use of cliched stock phrases aimed at younger readers, to influence them like a pedophile groomer or CNN news presenter.

>>22123328
Ah so the usual

>>22123328
>look mom i'm telling them about hat meme again look
>that's great sweetie now go sit on father michael's penis

>>22123224
It's not precise though. It's like you expect books to not be verbatim renditions of their titles. Do you think most books are not verbatim? Are you some weird conspiracy theorist who thinks everything is secretly abridged or something? It seemed more reasonable to assume you didn't know what the word meant but if you think you were being precise then what the fuck have you been buying that books not being verbatim was a problem? Was it GR? Because that could explain a lot.

>>22123453
>look mom i'm telling them about priest meme again look
>that's great sweetie now go sit on drag queen's penis

>>22108445
My fellowship and i read and reviewed this book at one our gatherings last April. Video related, our thoughts on the book. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eN3fxzn0ro

>>22123689
Kek

>>22123453
>>22123689
Christians and trannies are surprisingly similar to one another:
>both expect the world to play along with their beliefs, lashing out violently when questioned
>both need to constantly brainwash children into their cults or they simply die out
>both tend to resort to genital mutilation in order to "fix" their sexual disorders
We're probably witnessing the same cultural phenomenon as it transitions (pun unintended) from one stage to the next.