/lit/ - Literature

>I don't have a lot of control over what I write. I put down whatever my muses dictate. I'm really looking foreword to discovering what they have in mind for NaNoWriMo this year.

>Oh, you're outlining? I don't like to try and plan what I write, I find it tends to make things seem too mechanical. I'm a "pantser," as in I write by the seat of my pants. You should try it.

ITT: Stupid shit I heard at a writing meetup I endured this morning. Are all writers such psychotic douches?

>>4216248
Show this person GRRM and watch them cry.
>>4216253
>only writing when you feel "inspired"
This person won't finish NaNoWriMo anyway.
>>4216256
There's nothing wrong with this as long as you revise like 500 times.

>>4216253
>>4216256
>how to detect shit writers

>I had someone critique my work, but they had too many notes. They clearly didn't get what I was doing. Now I only like to share my work with fellow writers.

(Not writing related.)
>I like to use an old cassette recorded when hunting for EVP (electronic voice phenomena.) I find that the cheaper your equipment, the better your chances of recording a ghost.

>>4216266
>They clearly didn't get what I was doing.
Oh, god. Oh god. If people don't get what you're doing, it's your fault for not making it clear.

>I like reading fiction but I just CAN'T. I don't want other peoples' ideas to influence my own.

Can anybody name a novel that has two protgaonists?

>>4216293
All the A Song of Ice and Fire books have more than two. Do you mean -exactly- two?

>>4216297
No jetpack of LARP shit

>>4216298
or*

>>4216298
So, no science fiction or fantasy? I can't name any others off the top of my head, but I'm sure there are.

http://www.advancedfictionwriting.com/blog/2010/12/02/having-multiple-protagonists-in-your-novel/

Regardless, this is hilarious. It suggests you can only have one protagonist if you want your book to sell because if you have two and they're opposed to each other, readers will be "confused" and not know who to "cheer for."

..................................................who are you guys quoting??

>edit? No it's perfect as is evrry mistake is your misunderstanding and you're wrong

>>4216273

>>4216307
>..................................................who are you guys quoting??
You

>>4216307
OP here, this is shit I heard this morning at a writing meetup.

>>4216293
John Green's "Will Grayson, Will Grayson"

Shutup I read it because a qt wanted me to. It was shite.

>>4216313
Why so insecure

>>4216307
They're meme arrows, not quotes.

Somebody was wearing a shirt with this image.
Me: "Oh, cool, the Morlocks."
Him: "What? No, these are zombies, dude."

>>4216335
>zombies
Jesus christ...

>my creative writing teacher said my short story read more like a summary than an actual story, and I was like "well, that's how it's supposed to read."

>>4216293
Like "Ulysses"? You've probably never heard about it though.

>>4216335
I thought morlocks were a metaphor for niggers.

>>4216831
Hardly. They were the hard working ones. Ah, shit, I just went /pol/ again.

>>4216248
I'm kind of like you, OP. The book I'm writing has the cover on the inside and I'm inventing a language to write it in.

>>4216260
nope. some just pretend to be so they blend right in

>>4216269
>Oh, god. Oh god. If people don't get what you're doing, it's your fault for not making it clear.
I get it, no one should use it as an excuse to be masturbatory with their writing but your view is a very naive simplification that professional writers use to illustrate that is on you if you can't sell the product: the fault is in both for not sharing a common understanding, the loss is always in the seller though, and that's you

>>4216293
specifically two? 100 years of solitude has like 4 in the centerspot

>It's a feminist novel, first and foremost. I want to reach the younger crowd and get them involved in smashing the bullshit white patriarchy.

>I'm inventing a language for my book

stop this.

stop.

>>4216293
1Q84

>>4216983
what if they're a linguist

>>4216913
dont fight it

>>4216974
>new york times bestseller, changed my life, featured on ellen, etc...

>>4216983
>>4217007

It only works in small doses, trying to go full Tolkien without his extensive background is just asking for a headache.

>>4216313
No need to knock Green. He might not be your niche, but he's enjoyable, and people clearly enjoy him.

>"I don't edit my work. It ruins the spontaneous feeling of it. The spelling errors just make it seem more real."

I like how you guys think the writers on /lit/ don't do all of these things. This board needs the creative environment that /ic/ has developed, this board needs more Loomis.

I guess it is easier to criticize shitty artwork, but the drawing threads in /ic/ show real skill. When does anyone post good original writings on /ic/?

>>4217086
>Loomis

We don't really have a /lit/ version of that.

Strunk & White?

>>4216248
>>4216253
>>4216256

>Harry is going to die in our lifetime, and there will be no one to defend us from these savages

The end is nigh

>>4217086
>When does anyone post good original writings on /ic/?
Probably never since /ic/ is a artwork board.

>>4217103
Who is Harry?

>>4218807
begone

>>4218830
So you don't know, either?

>>4218807
Harry Potter

>>4218836
She's real?

>>4217103
As he draws his last breath a hundred thousand souls with no discernible talent will be released from their graves.

>>4216307
greentexting, like spoiler tags makes for a great literary device. Why shouldn't we use it?

>>4218833
He's in the image newfriend

>>4216293
really depends how you define a 'main character', but Kafka on the Shore pretty clearly has 2 viewpoint characters

>>4216297
I tried to write a story with 12 once. It detailed the same events through each viewpoint.
Before I got past the first chapter their personalities had melted down into a slush of angst and adolescence.

>>4218997
>I tried to write a story with 12 once. It detailed the same events through each viewpoint.
12 would be fucking tedious m8, though virginia woolf's 'the waves' has six viewpoint characters who experience some of the same events.

>>4217082
Nobody has ever said this.

>>4216248

>I am a very visionary writer. I think a lot of people wouldn't get my writing. For instance, I sometimes do a novel with thousands of characters, all of them being the main characters. I also drink one liter of water through the ass.

>>4219010
omg my sides

Greetings Spaniard.

>>4219010
11/10 This man is not even trolling.

>>4216293
strangely none mentioned The Brothers Karamazov yet

>>4219042
Shit yeah, and Fathers and Sons as well.

>>4216293
narcissus & goldmund

>>4219046
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/30723

>>4219042
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/28054

>This class isn't big enough for two metaphysical seekers.
>I don't really have any talent. Unless you consider the power to blow minds with my weapons-grade philosophical insights a talent.

>>4216293
cryptonomicon

>>4218970
Harry is the diminutive of Harold?
You Anglos have such an horrible language.

>>4216983
>>4217007
It has been done successfully precisely once, by a man who was fluent in nearly a dozen languages.

>>4216293

Anna Karenina has six.

>>4219067
If someone actually said those in a class, I'd probably just up and leave.

>>4216260
I would've got up and walked out.

>I write a mix of fantasy and philosophy

>>4219279

>my work is very philosophical
>read it
>babby's first philosophy overwroughtly explained in long, boring speeches

>>4219279
>I'm trying to write something like The Prince of Nothing, but not as difficult to get through.

Heard this a few weeks back.

>>4216273
so self-absorbed

>>4219067
>metaphysical seekers
Like, they're metaphysical and seeking things?
Or are they seeking the fundamental adjective?

>>4216813
>one time I had to write a story
>like, 12 yrs ago
>all non-dialog is mistake free
>I wrote the dialog wrong on purpose, because the character was illiterate since it was a fucking medieval setting
>teacher corrects grammar without telling me before posting it on the wall
>never trust teachers ever again to not be fucking morons
>try a few years later anyway
>I don't really understand this? Teacher asks.
>Give it to other students
>all of them understood it fine
Fuck teachers.
SHE CHANGED MY FUCKING DIALOG.

>>4219371
if you write as well as you greentext I'd have to say that your teacher was justified

>>4219379
Seriously? Fuck greentext! Who gives a shit about greentext? I WAS 13 AND SHE BROKE MY CREATIVE LITTLE HEART, THAT RANCID FISH CUNT. I wish I had slapped her. No. I wish I had tore that abomination off the wall and eaten it in front of her.
But I probably would have gotten spear tackled to the ground and sat upon.
That was a terrifying fucking place.
I've seen some shit.
I don't even care about the other stuff anymore. Who cares about physical and emotional abuse against children and young adults? Years later, the only thing I still haven't gotten over is how she fucked with my text like that.

>>4216293

Tropic of Orange has a bunch

>>4219371
>>I wrote the dialog wrong on purpose, because the character was illiterate
that makes no sense
literacy has nothing to do with being able to speak you mong

>>4219394
>Years later, the only thing I still haven't gotten over is how she fucked with my text like that

Surely that is the only thing.

>>4219394
You sound as hysteric as me, I like you.

>>4219412
Whatever, he used double negatives and shit.

>>4219413
Nope. The rest I find equal parts horrible and hilarious, but I still hate because of that. A pounding hate that won't ever go away. Watch somebody talk to me about censorship.

>>4219422
Goddammit, shhh. How do people respond to that?

>>4216293
Catch-22, sorta. I'd argue that Yossarian, Orr, and the Chaplain are all protagonists.

>>4219447

stfu

>>4219492
no u

>>4219422
Stop talking to yourself.

>>4216293
The Black Company series has a few at a time, although it's written in first person.

>>4219001
I tried with four main characters and about seven factions.
It became a clusterfuck of plotholes and obliviousness too fast.

>>4219182
what
what book

>>4219750
By Tolkien in Lord of the Rings

>>4217086
>this board needs more Loomis.
...I can't argue this.

IS there even an authority text or author for fiction writing?

I never even questioned that.

I have The Graceful Lie but I just thought of it as another text for writing, I never considered it to be THE authority

>>4216293
don quixote

the plague?

It's too bad that most of the writers try to be experimental just out of a desire to be seen as different from line one, and not out of a true passionate desire to play with the form.

They seldom follow through to the end of the work, meanwhile denigrating the elegance of things like the third person past POV,

It's like those "poets" who take a shit on iambic pentameter, because of the pleasure of coloring outside of the lines and not out of a desire to communicate something that necessitated the breaking of form.

>>4220573
>elegance of third person past tense

Finally someone else gets it. I agree with all you've said. To color outside the lines, you must first establish them soundly.

>>4216913
It's not too late, fight back. Don't lose the good person you are now.

>>4220638
>To color outside the lines, you must first establish them soundly
most accurate thing I've seen this year, goes for anything creative

>>4219753
>done well

u wot m8.

>>4216265
Isabelle Allende says she writes by just sitting down and typing what comes to her

>>4216293
The Master & Commander series has Aubrey and Maturin

>>4216293
Rachel Ward: Numbers

>>4220691
>never read isabel allende
>classmate does her workshop assignment on maya's notebook
>it's all grimderp shit nonsense about destiny picking up on an emotionally stunted girl addicted to drugs
And now I'm glad I didn't wasted my time on that shit.

I'm writing a story about a bee, who is also a spy, but he sucks at his job because his plans are over-complicated. He uses an albino bald Gorilla, who's a security guard at the nectar factory he's infiltrating, to do his bidding, because he convinced the gorilla that he's his conscience. The gorilla, however, fucks up his plans even further because he misinterprets the bee's long-winded instructions as God telling him to take vengeance on his coworkers for making fun of him.

So where's your million dollar idea? Wait, go ahead and take that one, hacks.

>>4220792
No, that one's good.
At least it's not drug-addicted kid sob novel #516464765852638467645.

Godspeed, good anon.

>>4220810
Thank you.

But seriously it's an idea for a cartoon.

>>4220822
Can't wait for the toys.

>>4219523
I am me, motherfucker.

>>4221054
>he doesn't know about anatman

>>4220779
Allende writes pretty upbeat magical realism given the historical context she writes in

Wait, you guys actually plan what you're going to write and don't just do it in the moment you wish to?

>>4221401
Yes mate, it's literature not contemporary dance. It has plot and structure. Do you think there's any value to stream-of-consciousness writing? Do you enjoy reading that?

>>4219067

I hope to God you threw a desk at that person.

It's the only immediate and adequate reaction I can think of.

The nearest I've come to that kind of shit is the open-and-proud furry in one of my economic courses. Which wasn't so much infuriating as confusing (especially when he brought a picture of his fursona so the class could see).

>>4221413
I don't mean to argue, i just thought writers don't really plan out their writing, and, yes, i mostly like to read philosophers who follow their stream-of-consciousness, care to recommend me some?

>>4221442
You may enjoy reading some Deluze & Guttari but generally even philosophers have to structure their arguments. Actual stream-of-consciousness writing tends to be immensely dull, an exercise in word association.

>>4221442

Most writers do a mixture of both. Even if you do a lot of outlining, you're still going to do some writing off the cuff when a particular thought strikes you or you've found your rhythm.

>>4216266
>be in creative writing class
>mfw my teacher loves my writing because I'm apparently good at writing action scenes
>says I'm a good writer because of it
>never really truly critiques my writing because it's fun to read

I just want to get better.....

>I need to plan it out first.
>I'm worldbuilding.

>Be in creative writing class.
>Teacher loves my writing.
>Rarely any feedback as a result.
>Come to every class, turn in everything on time, get A on every assignment.
>Class full of self-righteous hipsters talking for 15 minutes about nothing.
>Don't want to be like them, stay quiet.
>Get B in class because I didn't contribute when workshopping other students' work.
>mfw

>>4221503
My creative writing class feels like a thread on /tv/ right after a new episode of breaking bad.

>CONNECTIONS OUTTA FUCKIN NOWHERE

>>4216293
Infinite Jest very clearly has two: Gately and Hal

>>4219010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSNTajkHPCc

>>4216293
Demian

>>4221503
>not undermining them subtly with seemingly sincere questions and feigned ignorance

>enter writing workshop on college
>other students are avid readers, I am just getting back into reading
>write a slice of life story about monsters on a fishing trip and a simile of cyborg 009's Frozen Time episode with an annoying bitch as a protagonist for the first assignments
>nearly flunk it due to getting sick exactly the day the class was for 3 weeks
>mfw the teacher gives me an A- anyways for originality

>>4216248
You may be a visionary writer, but don't call yourself such, it comes across as annoyingly boastful.
Does it matter if they get your writing?
What are you writing for? I think this is a very importation question. For me I kept trying to accommodate people till I realized I was writing because I have fun sharing my ideas, but because I had drifted into writing other ideas it was no longer fun, so I went back to doing it mostly my way under the idea that given how big the world is someone somewhere will get my ideas and that is good enough to keep it as a small hobby.
Having dealt with many people I can tell you that yes you will lose a few people as this makes more complexities, but it not nearly as troublesome as you make it sound and the few you lose are probably people you don't want anyway. So just do it, but you may what to make the transitions a bit clearer to help them along. (Try adding a working utopia like civilization like I do and see how lost the reader gets. The next person that tells me "it's human nature" to do X, even when every intensive to do so has been removed is going to get a long boring lecture from me.)

>Also since I am already here and don't think it worth starting a thread over, does anyone have any ideas on how to do the following transition.
>Smart but low tech world has character enjoying life then needs to get the character's world to be devastated. I basically need and excuse to remove him from everything for a few months so the devastation can be slow with highly visible symptoms but not give him time or knowledge to react (no invading armies please as this is a happy world till it burns. I am going with mining robots from space as earthquakes are big but don't give things away till it is too late and they pop out of the ground). I am looking at him starting in one nation then traveling a long ways by boat (as this would stop communications allowing this to build) to another which is just like his but in ruin, but still need some realistically excuse for him to take such a trip when everything he wants is where he is. A call to help comes to mind, but then why would they call for help from someone so far away. I can't justify it and it is hanging up the rest of the story.

>>4221503
>Teacher loves my writing.
>Rarely any feedback as a result.

I hate this, I expected my shit to be dismantled on the atomic level but it's mostly "breddy gud anon" and all the other suggestions were natural developments of doing the 1st brushover.

>>4222773
There's nothing worse than plain old compliments and easy A's. I'd rather a professor tore me down and made me rework/rethink how I approach writing or hooked me up with a publisher.

>>4222766
OP wasn't actually sincerely saying that.

>>4222784
How can you tell?

>>4221639
I used to do shit like that. It gets old and depressing pretty fast.

>>4222782
>kid turns in some work with atrocious grammar and detail consistency
>first question out of my mouth was if he proofread that shit, apparently he did
>get reminded that it's all "works in progress"

I mean, I get it, don't go out of your way to be a dick. But you can't play nice when the shit was legitimately bad. You gotta let him know.

>>4216273
That made me think of this interview:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RbhYdFBGDU
He seriously says something about not listening to music because it influences him.

>>4222791
>implying
OP is quoting or satirizing. lrn24chan

>>4216262
>GRRM is the best example he has of multiple main characters

>it's about the children of immigrants from [Enter various African/Central American countries here] in modern America

>>4220638
i wish more people thought like you do. all this creativity/originality stuff is creating stubborn plebs who refuse to learn.

>If I just be myself and practice, I will be a successful, original author.

>>4222819
that anime had the worst dialogue ever; I am assuming that your pic is an example of that, but I would have used the one about how the guy will wrap the girls sweater around her neck as many times as she needs it (was legitimately retarded)

would have been good, so much lost potential

>>4223047
Not exactly, but I don't come very often and thought the green text was just a way to differentiate text. Which is why my answer was one, and my off topic question was another. Why don't they use "quotes" when quoting? Applying the same change for multiple applications diminishes its impact and can get confusing.

>I'm writing a piece of dystopian fiction. It's as much political Trieste as it is literature

>>4223127
No, I just like that Titan's expression.

>>4222766
How about: a family member is realy sick and maybe about to die. That would be a good excuse to travel far away.

>go to 'ritin' forum
>ask "I want to write female characters that feel female, wat do"
>all the replies are variations of
>"you don't, you can't understand womyn"
>"write a tomboy"
>"gender roles are dated check your privilege"
>"why not write a genderless character"
>"make a strong women that needs no man"
>mfw
Thankfully I didn't said I wanted to write a girl whose goal is to be a great housewife or I would've been stoned out of there.

>>4223099
>>4223742
Fucking shit. I pray every night for this bullshit to stop being published.

>>4224432
Did you learn anything useful about writing women from anywhere else? I don't know much about it either but would like to learn.

>>4224503
I got this article but not much else.
http://litreactor.com/columns/how-to-write-like-a-girl-or-guy

It's just fucking painful to ask anything anywhere these times.

>>4219767
>IS there even an authority text or author for fiction writing?
God no, you can pull authoritative books or texts on writing such as essays or the Elements of Style. The problem is that so much good creative writing was done by breaking elementary rules, that shit writers defend themselves very easily by excusing it as a unique creative process instead of shit.

>>4224511
Hence why I asked you here. Strange how a site as abusive as this is often the most useful. Thanks anon.

>>4219394
>Harry is
She would have done well to teach you the basic elements of grammar.

>>4224535
Funnily enough, I asked here too and I got most of those answers.
How can people not get from that kind of question that I want to write an average girl and not an alien or bread-pandaqueer transabled mochica transherm of color?

I don't even care if there are those options or if it's not revolutionary; I just want to write my story with an average girl, Jesus.

>>4222838
He says he doesn't want to be influenced by commercial music. Do you think that's bad?

>>4223763
Thanks for the input, I really do appreciate it, more so as that idea hadn't crossed me yet. But the city-state structure I use is very isolationists (as are all the other nations). Compounded by the customs to become independent, a part of which is not to care as much for relatives then we would find typical. Together it doesn't fit well.

Part of the issue is I wrote myself into a corner by wanting
1. Have a near utopian world, am taking the low tech farming route (granted this is based on my bias, but its my book. It is funny cause I originally started with high tech but after lots of work I flipped.)
2. Have nearly everything get turn up side down as the world burns and the cause needs to be from space. (And as over used as it is a mining operation makes the most sense, and I tried so many other things just to avoid it but in the end couldn't. Cold heartless mining robots fit the bill too perfectly.)
3. Have it so these conditions are very close to each other to create the contrast, to quickly develop the character as the smart idealist who just got blindsided by something he could never stop or predict.
4. Have it happen slowly to show how when things go wrong even the peaceful people fight. (This is mainly to dilute the utopia and get readers to recognize they are indeed human, as many just can't seem to picture a world without a significant level of bad stuff.)
5. Have the character removed so to him the fall looks fast, the simple way to do this is have him not be there when it happens over a few months. (I though if a different nation fell first that would speed things up as he wasn't there for most of it, but realized something that big wouldn't go unnoticed. Thus putting him on a boat headed there gets him disconnect and speed things along. A month in a comma is what people keep suggesting as it is very very simple, but I am trying to keep it realistic* and having him black out seems really cheap.)

The two ones on my mind now are.
An arrange marriage (the kind were nations exchange people to represent them), but this only makes sense if it is a neighboring nation which would allow word to reach him too fast and it puts pressure for me to lower his age more then I care for given the way the customs and traditions are setup.
A call for help from far away, putting him as a foreign aid worker but again word would reach him too fast or it would beg the question on why they request an aid worker from the other side of the world when they are many nearby.
But I'm still open for ideas.

*Things do go crazy getting to stuff like reality warping psionics, but I do it very very slowly so as to keep the feeling of reality from the start, while making sure NEVER to violate the rule of the universe I made. So the reader will enjoy and accept things, till they look back as wonder how they got there. (Wizards will do things, but I don't want anyone to say "a wizard did it" when reading my stuff)

>>4225527
The image is not a spoiler, my mistake. I thought you checked the check box to get the text to go black after setting up the text right. Not that the real spoilers in the text part is big, as if you do read my stuff someday you likely not know it's me and forgot this conversation ever happened.

>>4224511
This should be useful at some point, thanks.
I didn't really stop and think about this stuff.

>>4225558
Me neither. I only stopped to think of it when one of the girls I was writing started to sound too much like a dudebro only because she was a bit of a tomboy and another one was too much of a cunt in a brutish kind of way.

>>4225527
Hmm I don't know about your character but maybe he could be an expert in a specific domain were he is needed to be there (maybe something like a scientific research of a suddenly occuring event, like a vulcanic eruption, a meteor...,a congress?). Otherwise: A pilgrimage in solitude? Getting lost or kidnapped?

>>4227092
I like it! (expert in a specific domain & volcano)
This actually works very well, given I was already thinking earthquakes would be a symptom of the mining. Sure earthquakes happen elsewhere, but if it hits in a place not know for them then he could be the closest person qualified as the people who deal with regular earthquake live even farther away. He could be the closet person who knows about earthquakes (say he read books on it at the library, given how I was building him to be the smartest one there anyway), thus he would be needed to go there. Throw in it is an island nation so a boat is needed (which would allow the reactivation of an island volcano, just cause lava is fun to play with and makes a good mid level destruction point story wise.), plus put in some bad weather to slow him down and it passes as acceptable.
Thanks for helping me solve this issue. I didn't want to start with an exposition or flashback to TELL the reader his character traits, showing is usually better. This has literally been holding everything up for months, as the middle and the end outlines have been done for a while. I am so happy.

>>4216293
cloud atlas