/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17576629]

Why do people play dumb and nitpick about terms like “cultural Marxism”? It’s obvious that critical theory was heavily inspired by Marxism (although diverted from it in some ways), and also that Marx’s class consciousness has been substituted with intersectionality, in which differences of ethnicity, sexual orientation, and gender are obsessed over. Not everything has to exactly match past history. People like Zizek who go “*shniff shniff* it is obvioush that the sho-called ‘shoshal justish warriors’, as you call them, have gained a large role in modern shoshiety, but where is the proof that they are Marxishts?” Today we’re expected to imagine gender is a social construct and if a man takes hormones and tries to act like the stereotype of a woman, they’re women. I don’t see how this is different from Lysenkoism.

[Anonymous No.17576640]

>>17576629
In both cases the masses are presented nature as oppression (scarcity, evolution) and fed a fake target for their resentment. Beyond that, I am not sure there are many commonalities.

[Anonymous No.17576641]

>>17576629
It's inaccurate and dishonest

[Anonymous No.17576643]

>>17576641
The term "cultural marxism" I mean and the conspiracy surrounding it. People who espouse it are ignorant and have little knowledge of the philosophers or schools of thought they are discussing

[Anonymous No.17576645]

>>17576640
Also yes, I have never found any valuable insight on Zizek talks.

[Anonymous No.17576924]

>>17576640
>>17576641
>>17576643
Just to be clear, I’m not a great scholar of Marx, and certainly “cultural Marxism” may not be a perfect term, but it is definitely a VIVID and USEFUL term. Modern cultural obsessions like reparations for blacks and fixing the so-called “wage gap” between men and women seem like the modern versions of Marx’s, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.” “Cultural Marxism” doesn’t necessarily mean a carbon-copy of the Communist Manifesto, only that there’s a new obvious trend in society that’s in some ways similar to Marxism.

[Anonymous No.17576958]

>>17576629
The overwhelming majority of the people who the label is supposed to apply are liberals, hence it is completely inappropriate and misleading. And the ideology itself clearly owes more to liberal cosmopolitanism than Marxism or Socialism.

[Anonymous No.17576979]

>>17576958
See >>17576924

[Anonymous No.17576991]

>>17576979
I already read that. Part of my response is that the ideology under discussion is a form of liberalism (in its current form at any rate), hence it is misleading to dub it a form of Marxism. Just because it has analogies with Marxism doesn't make it Marxist.

[Anonymous No.17576999]

>>17576991
Fair enough, but, well, in my opinion, stuff like the focus on the gender wage gap and reparations has a direct correlation with the Marxist idea of redistribution of wealth. Hence, the modern political and economic zeitgeist is not necessarily *Stalinist*, but, at minimum, STALINOID.

[Anonymous No.17577001]

>>17576958
While I agree, the problem is that when push comes to shove, the left will always back the liberals over anything perceived as nationalist etc.
Meaning there is an effective associating roadblock when it comes to how things are perceived on the right.
Both the academic left and the mainstream liberals both tackle the right and lump it into just the same vague categories. How could you sincerely call someone like DJT far right? Look at any leftists publishers like verso or zero and they’ll lump everything in as fascism when it suits. This is no different.
Also critical theory can literally be defined as stemming from non dogmatic Marxism. It’s just technicalities and spin wars.

[Anonymous No.17577009]

>>17576991
Why? Marxism focuses on class inequality, cultural Marxism focuses on cultural inequality. That seems like a fair comparison to me. Liberalism, per se, has no necessary connection with egalitarianism.

[Anonymous No.17577025]

>>17577001
>into just the same vague categories. How could you sincerely call someone like DJT far right? Look at any leftists publishers like verso or zero and they’ll lump everything in as fascism when it suits. This is no different.
Exactly one of my points. Just as classical Marxism created the enemy of the “oppressive bourgeiosie capitalist class”, modern cultural Marxism has created the enemy of “the fascist far-right capitalist patriarchal white supremacist bigot class.” “Cultural Marxism”, in other words, is NOT 100% analogous to classic Marxism, but simply analogous to it in many ways.

Again, the totalitarian Marxist corruption of science, Lysenkoism, is also analogous to modern corruption of science with transgenderism. There is also the totalitarian censorship/“fact checkers” common to both (today known as “political correctness” and “debunking conspiracy theories and far-right disinformation”).

[Anonymous No.17577030]

>>17576629
Gender is a social construct. That's not Marxism it's fact.

[Anonymous No.17577033]

>>17576629
Its Maoism that is why they don't recognize it. Maoism CAN be class collaborationist because of the Japanese invasion which is why many think it can't be Marxist but that just shows they haven't been keeping up with developments. SJWism considers the "imperialism" of gender or whatever have you to be more important than capitalism itself, and so it can team up with nationally "based" capitalists to defeat it in a "united front". Many Marxists vehemently attempt to deny that even in his origins that Mao was a Marxist so they will never see eye to eye on this question. Probably better to use the term Cultural Maoist to get the point across clearer.

[Anonymous No.17577037]

>>17576999
It does have a correlation but the difference is that the ideology itself is focusing on pretty much any disadvantaged identity except... class. Now there is clearly something in it that appeals to Marxists since most of them seem to have embraced it, but the core root of the ideology doesn't appear to be Marxism. I am not sure exactly where it came from. Peggy Macintosh maybe?

[Anonymous No.17577038]

>>17576629
because they are dishonest.

[Anonymous No.17577042]

>>17576629
>why do sophists uses sophistry

[Anonymous No.17577045]

>>17577001
>While I agree, the problem is that when push comes to shove, the left will always back the liberals over anything perceived as nationalist etc.
That's true but I don't see how it entails that liberal ideologies are Marxist

[Anonymous No.17577053]

>>17577037
Well, some people would say modern “political correctness” and “social justice warriors” are a TROJAN HORSE for totalitarian Marxism. Again, seriously think about the simple think that reparations for blacks, affirmative action for both minorities and women, and the attempt to fix the wage gap between women and men are HIGHLY ANALOGOUS to Marx’s dictum, “ From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.” Keep in mind also that BLM was FOUNDED BY MARXISTS, and that antifa is, broadly, an organization of Marxists and anarchists, and the the MSM carries water for BLM and antifa, glossing over their terrorist actions and their radical differences from modern Western ideals of capitalism and of living in a democratic republic.

[Anonymous No.17577055]

>>17577009
>Why? Marxism focuses on class inequality, cultural Marxism focuses on cultural inequality. That seems like a fair comparison to me. Liberalism, per se, has no necessary connection with egalitarianism.
Liberalism has a commitment to a certain form of egalitarianism too, hence the belief in the equally of all before the law and the push for female suffrage. But it's clearly not Marxist.

[Anonymous No.17577056]

>>17576643
>COSPIIIIRACY THEEEEEORY
you passed four years utterly convinced that the Russians had stolen the election.
Four fucking years no proof in sight.
Day and night night and day all media trying to sell that the Russian had stolen the election.
Then the next election you proclaimed that anyone who would doubt it's veracity is a domestic terrorist, completely beyond the pale and deserving only of lashes and death by scaphism.
Please forgive the sarcasm dripping thicc from my voice as I say that I don't trust your judgement in cospiracy fucking theories.

[Anonymous No.17577063]

>>17577030
yup you are correct some guy attempted to construct the concept of gender so that he could more easily dissociate it from sex

[Anonymous No.17577064]

>>17576958
>liberal thought wasn't inspired by Marx and Trotsky.
Are you even fucking...?

[Anonymous No.17577069]

>>17577030
own your heroes then

[Anonymous No.17577072]

>>17577056
Trump lost, have sex.

[Anonymous No.17577078]

>>17577064
Classical liberalism was fully developed before these retards were ever relevant. Maybe neoliberal thought was influenced by Bolsheviks because America was fighting Stalinism in the Cold War. The only possible influence of Marx and Trotsky is to stay away from their mental illnesses, but if you're not a jew you're safe.

[Anonymous No.17577081]

>>17577030
Can you prove to me gender isn't a Platonic form? I'm more inclined towards thinking gender exists in an abstract realm.

[Anonymous No.17577091]

>>17577030
>>17577081
>fact
>prove
You brainlets shouldn't be allowed to post anywhere.

[Anonymous No.17577101]

>>17577053
>Well, some people would say modern “political correctness” and “social justice warriors” are a TROJAN HORSE for totalitarian Marxism. Again, seriously think about the simple think that reparations for blacks, affirmative action for both minorities and women, and the attempt to fix the wage gap between women and men are HIGHLY ANALOGOUS to Marx’s dictum, “ From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.”
Reparations are not about "each according to his needs", the issue is explicitly framed as one of justice. If all they really cared about is poverty they would all be berniebros, but that's not their motivation, and they hate what they call "Class Reductionism". Same for women in the workplace, what they care about is women as a group to have the same average income as men, they don't really talk about female poverty as such. That doesn't seem Marxist to me.
>Keep in mind also that BLM was FOUNDED BY MARXISTS, and that antifa is, broadly, an organization of Marxists and anarchists, and the the MSM carries water for BLM and antifa, glossing over their terrorist actions and their radical differences from modern Western ideals of capitalism and of living in a democratic republic.
That's because liberal media is focused on fighting right wing extremists, and are willing to tolerate a certain amount of extremism in the broadly "left" camp.

[Anonymous No.17577108]

>>17576629
"Cultural marxism" is a nebulous term for "left wing or liberal thing that I don't like". It's not used outside of internet arguments.

[Anonymous No.17577109]

>>17577091
If you don't believe in facts you aren't allowed to call anyone a brainlet

[Anonymous No.17577110]

>>17577078
>Classical liberalism
which is not what we are talking about now.
>>17577072
you will never be a woman.

[Anonymous No.17577115]

>>17576629
It's a bogeyman that serves to make leftists look scarier and stupider than they are. It is a device to widen the divide
>To the benefit of whom, i wonder

[Anonymous No.17577123]

>>17577101
Again, I would like to reiterate cultural Marxism does NOT mean 100% analogous to classical Marxism. It’s, once again, simply a vivid and useful term for an OBVIOUS modern cultural and philosophical trend, which could variously be called “the far left,” intersectionality, the ideology of the USA Democratic Party, political correctness, etc. Of course, ironically, the Democratic Party defrauded genuine socialists like Bernie in their rigged primaries. It’s, once again, all ANALOGOUS but not IDENTICAL to classical Marxism.

>>17577030
AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.17577158]

OP here. some relevant song lyrics.

>Black Lives Don't Matter

they really don't, mate..
let me tell you, you won't believe me, well it's true!
you gotta trust me on it,
it's all gonna come out soon!

black lives matter? ha! don't make me laugh!
they only matter when the dead body has political expediency
otherwise fuck off, you cunt!

they only care when it's a white bloke who done it
black lives matter, eh? that's just a hate group
they're the same as the ku klux klan, you bunch of poofters!

black lives matter only when it serves the agenda
otherwise who gives a toss? you don't..
you and your white guilt, you cuck!

all you're interested in is furthering black violence
come on, admit it! admit it to yourselves!
or at least show us your tits, do something that matters..

don't act like you care, you virtue signalling slag!
go police each other on twatter and forget about it tomorrow
nice!
cunt.

just keep blaming whitey for your collective failure
that'll do ya, right? that'll change things, ha!
don't take responsibility..

you'll only care about that child's death
if that child was killed by a white man
or you'll sweep it under the rug and ignore it
you don't care, admit it!

you just hate white people, you bigots!
you scurvy trash! get off your ass and own it!
who's the victim, eh? what?
soggy cunt!

black lives don't matter, unless you can exploit it!

>Women Have Penises Too

women have penises too
women have penises too
no more nazi white men
the patriarchy's come to an end

women have penises too
women have penises too
intersectional diversity
for all the muslims and lgbt

my body, my choice, my rights
abortion screamed inside and then died

women have penises too
and soon they'll be inside you
penises of color will bash the fash
as the patriarchy takes it up the ass

women have penises
women have penises
women have penises too

feminism embracing islam
1984 on the animal farm

>O Antifa

o antifa, o antifa proudly fight the nazi's
o antifa, o antifa follow in the footsteps of trotsky
goodnight alt-right, your heads will crack when every night is kristallnacht,
o antifa, o antifa
your eyes are closer together

o antifa, o antifa no platform for the fascists
o antifa, o antifa brown shirt & black bloc tactics
mao and stalin shall be revived on the next 'night of the long knives'
o antifa, o antifa it's not ok to be white

o antifa, o antifa no one is illegal
o antifa, o antifa clip the wings of the eagle
orange man bad, he's a nationalist
identitarian not globalist
o antifa, o antifa no border, no wall

o antifa, o antifa ending white supremacy
o antifa, o antifa forcing equality
and demographic replacement by third world immigrants
o antifa, o antifa no usa at all

[Anonymous No.17577163]

>>17577158
http://sentimentalcorp.org/systemsdeath_recordings/randy_prozac/third_world_country_classics/audioplayer.html

[Anonymous No.17577183]

>>17577123
It's not a useful term because it's inaccurate and retarded

[Anonymous No.17577194]

http://sentimentalcorp.org/systemsdeath_recordings/randy_prozac/a_clownworld_orange/audioplayer.html

>Six Million Cock Stare

i wish trump was even half the fascist
as the degenerate protected classes
he should declare war on the united nations
before they thoroughly destroy all our civilizations

i'm really tired of the worship of moloch
and all the little boys the jews want riding my cock
i'm tired of subsidizing zog enforced nog
i better go watch more cartoons and forget what i saw

we have to make sure pregnant men get abortions
as the cockroach boats scream across the oceans
enjoy the fall and your enrichment too
keep on jacking off to the electric jew

stand in line, take your capeshit drugs
when we are all (((equal))) you won't need those guns
demoralized by vibrants, you're under control
watching your futures circle the toilet bowl

and when a sea of mud comes to rape your daughters
and all your sons are on puberty blockers
all the way from rotherham you can hear the laughter
carried on the echo of the suicide bombers

we have to make sure pregnant men get abortions
as the cockroach boats scream across the oceans
enjoy the fall and your enrichment too
keep on jacking off to the electric jew

stand in line, take your capeshit drugs
we are all (((equal))) you won't need those guns
demoralized by vibrants, you're under control
watching your futures circle the toilet bowl

chasing the boogieman of carbon dioxide
agenda 2030, nineteen eighty-four has arrived
it's easier to manipulate a rootless comrade
and those wildfires are a form of jihad

> Dab On The Gas Chambers

divide and conquer, right CNN?
keep giving us the facial with the infant foreskin
MSNPC re-tweeting 'orange man bad'
and all my favorite shows have been co-opted by GLAAD

i'm late for work, where's my pronoun armband?
and my little yellow star of marxism?
they're signing the compacts of helter skelter
i think it's time to commit fork in toaster

hollywood's a monster that's poisoning your mind
its communist tentacles have undermined
your culture's been thrown into the garbage can
flip the channel to decline of modern man

gaslit frankfurtian brainwashing
double-plus'd with tavistock conditioning
tolerance is the dildo that's being greased
as you're sucked underneath the truck of peace

BPA creating waves of trannies
and low-T basedboy's in anime panties
whose gender doesn't match what's on the outside
because their uber order's missing the french fries

hurry up and learn that cantonese
because they won't respect your mental disease
staring at a wall, confined and confused
with 10k rounds just begging to be used

hollywood's a monster that's poisoning your mind
its communist tentacles have undermined
your culture's been thrown into the garbage can
flip the channel to decline of modern man

gaslit frankfurtian brainwashing
double-plus'd with tavistock conditioning
tolerance is the dildo that's being greased
as you're sucked underneath the truck of peace

[Anonymous No.17577195]

>>17577056
This kind of faggotron thinks that Trump both
>Won this past election
>Has some sort of master plan, thinly veiled as irony
In other words, it's delusional

[Anonymous No.17577200]

>>17577183
You’re either willfully blind, utterly brainwashed, or a shill. Modern trends of political correctness, corruption of science, fact checkers, affirmative action, and the idea of reparations are directly analogous to totalitarian Marxism. AGAIN, as I’ve said NUMEROUS TIMES, this doesn’t mean a carbon-copy of Marxism, but an analogous system to it, Go fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.17577203]

>>17577200
lol

[Anonymous No.17577206]

>>17577195
as usual you won't stop argung with the strawman inhabiting your head rent free instead of engaging with different worldview.
I look forward to the Chinese finally destroying the west and sending your kind to the camps once you are no longer useful.

[Anonymous No.17577211]

>>17577203
Tell me how Lysenskoism is not directly analogous to modern “transgenderism” and its corruption of the fields of psychology and biology, NPC.

[Anonymous No.17577222]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

>Lysenkoism (Russian: Лыcéнкoвщинa, tr. Lysenkovshchina) was a political campaign led by Trofim Lysenko against genetics and science-based agriculture in the mid-20th century, rejecting natural selection in favour of Lamarckism and exaggerated claims for the benefits of vernalization and grafting. In time, the term has come to be identified as any deliberate distortion of scientific facts or theories for purposes that are deemed politically, religiously or socially desirable.

[Anonymous No.17577350]

>>17577200
You're a schizophrenic

[Anonymous No.17577690]

>>17577056
>mutt sees word "conspiracy" and immediately goes completely off topic and starts ranting about mutt politics
Lmao. I can't wait until China takes over your dumb asses.

[Anonymous No.17577750]

>>17576629
It’s progressive liberalism. It’s not Marxism. It’s all liberalism, and you are all making a grave mistake by pretending it isn’t and not naming the enemy. Liberalism wants to liberate the masses from gender, sexism, etc using identity politics and bring them into a globohomo dystopia. That is quite obviously what is happening today, if you think Marx is the core of it you’re a fucking moron

[Anonymous No.17577790]

>>17577206
>>17577211
lol

[Anonymous No.17577815]

>>17577123
There’s one major question you have to answer if you actually think it’s a Marxist Trojan horse. If this is a radical and revolutionary ideology we see today, why is it universally accepted by the youth and why is it institutionally endorsed in Western governments and the mass media? You can’t say it’s because Marxists are secretly in control since we live a neoliberal world run by oligarchs. You also can’t take the leftist position and it’s all for “advertising” considering no one fucking cares if Shell Oil doesn’t host enough diversity seminars and the mass media is largely responsible for spreading the ideology anyway. The only explanation is that this is a natural development of liberalism into progressive ideology, borrowing leftist elements from the New Left to make a more intersectional and individualistic neoliberal world. That’s why it’s so intertwined with our mass culture, it’s fundamentally produced from how our world is designed and how social media has given a platform for the dregs of society to weep about how slavish and oppressed they are despite living the easiest lives in human history. Marxism is related to it just because it began the leftist tradition, but it’s not the cause. The average leftist has more in common with John Stuart Mill and Chomsky than they do Marx or Lenin.

[Anonymous No.17577849]

>>17576640
>>17576641
You stupid niggers, fundamental factor is that they're based on the "oppressor-and-oppressed" dichotomy which is itself a variation of the "us-vs-them" dichotomy. These are inherently divisive and emotionally manipulative and hence make wonderful propaganda tools.

[Anonymous No.17577858]

>>17577815
>why is it universally accepted by the youth and why is it institutionally endorsed in Western governments and the mass media? You can’t say it’s because Marxists are secretly in control since we live a neoliberal world run by oligarchs
Because cultural marxists are the useful idiots for neoliberalism. Many of our overlords are also personally into cultural marxist ideas because it's an ideology that's all about feeling good about yourself by virtue signalling, it goes into the whole "philantropy" thing.

[Anonymous No.17577865]

>>17577750
Correct, but Marx has become the "face" of it.

[Anonymous No.17577870]

>>17576629
They're defending a belief system they identify with. Socially it advances the cause of that ideology, personally it protects their self-identity. It also makes them feel smart.
At this point it seems like these political terms are used so generally that it causes a lot of confusion. Counterintuitively I think you might as well go with what makes sense to you cause if you really care about politics then it's war and no one's gonna give your 'side' a fair shake. I mean it's been common in popular culture for decades to use "fascist" to describe anything authoritarian, when fascism isn't the same thing as national socialism, and communists are as authoritarian as anyone.

[Anonymous No.17577887]

>>17577858
It requires such a stupid leap of faith to think that the end-goal of Netflix making movies about trannies and Obama marching with BLM is some sort of Marxist dystopia. The only viable explanation is that this is all just ostensibly Progressivism, and the only reason self-proclaimed Marxists are often supportive of it is because Marxism got absorbed into liberalism with the New Left in the 60s and 70s. It doesn’t matter how much leftists LARP and call themselves communist radicals or how much conservatives say the same things about them, leftists will still Vote Blue No Matter Who every 4 years because they’re mostly just basic boring libshit retards that want the exact same world as we do but with less white people and more degeneracy. Aka, exactly what liberal oligarchs want, because they’re all on the same team initiating the same liberal project. Blame the CIA for cucking leftists into liberalism in the 60s with people like Herbert Marcuse

[Anonymous No.17577897]

>>17577815
It's a divide-and-conquer tactic; the nature of the ideology is extremely divisive and thus prevents any unified reisistance to rule, otherwise if they do acquiese to it then their cultures, histories, identities, and peoplehoods get bulldozed into a shopping mall making them more easily controlled cattle (moreso than they already prove they are)

Marxism was always funded by elites anyway, the soviet and chinese revolutions were funded by bankers

[Anonymous No.17577922]

>>17576629
>>17576924
Everything that you would describe as "cultural Marxism" is in fact much more accurately described as cultural Liberalism. Just compare the ideologies and ideas of Marxist states - the Soviet Bloc and China on the one hand - and Western radical liberalism on the other. This gender shit started in the West in the 60s. It's not "Marxist", it's quintessentially liberal. Cultural Marxism is just an obfuscation term meant to distract people from the real source of the issue.

[Anonymous No.17577970]

>>17577123
>Again, I would like to reiterate cultural Marxism does NOT mean 100% analogous to classical Marxism. It’s, once again, simply a vivid and useful term for an OBVIOUS modern cultural and philosophical trend, which could variously be called “the far left,” intersectionality, the ideology of the USA Democratic Party, political correctness, etc. Of course, ironically, the Democratic Party defrauded genuine socialists like Bernie in their rigged primaries. It’s, once again, all ANALOGOUS but not IDENTICAL to classical Marxism.
Your argument doesn't work because calling an ideology 'Cultural Marxism' entails that it is a form of Marxism, not just analogous to it. And for it to be a form of Marxism it needs to be a development from a Marxist core, not just formally similar to it. The term may be useful for propaganda purposes, but the question is whether it is accurate.