Inner monologue

[Anonymous No.23198870]

You have an inner voice don't you anon?

it's amazing to me that 30-50% of the population has no inner voice. People that lack an inner voice often can't even believe it exists. Some aspie asian even had the audacity to call it "main character syndrome". it seems like east Asians are a big portion of these people.

is this not shocking?

Go figure those without an inner voice are awful when it comes to articulating their higher thinking process. I wish they could explain how they understand complex concepts without the synthesis of language.

This all reminds me of "linguistic determinism" the notion that language determines what we can perceive and understand. I was sort of shocked to see this concept is academically passe. I initially thought it was for aomw pozzed reason, but perhaps it's because almost half the population has no inner voice.

great thread on this topic
https://twitter.com/JoshWalkos/status/1767742955828212156

[Anonymous No.23198878]

yeah, I can't stand that internal monologuing has become a racial dogwhistle.

it used to be a dogwhistle for creatives vs moneymen, which was still wrong, but better.

[Anonymous No.23198880]

>>23198870
>30-50% of the population has no inner voice
Source?

[Anonymous No.23198882]

>>23198878
well, it seems europeans are very likely to possess one. It's the sub-saharans and asians without one. go figure.

[Anonymous No.23198888]

>>23198882
>it seems
>go figure
some real hard science here.

[Anonymous No.23198890]

I still don't understand what people mean by inner voice.

inb4 "hurr durr if you have to ask you don't have it"
Have what? Surely all people have thoughts.

[Anonymous No.23198896]

I have an inner monologue. AMA.

[Anonymous No.23198898]

>mono
w..what

[Anonymous No.23198900]

>>23198888
checked

[Anonymous No.23198908]

I feel like this entire inner monologue discourse is just a big misunderstanding. Sure some people are dumb and don't think deeply about things but most people "think" and that would require a voice in their head or even ideas which can be just as complex as an inner voice. I can go form having entire conversations inside my head to my mind going blank whenever I'm like stressed or something and want to just forget everything.

[Anonymous No.23198909]

>>23198890
I think of inner monologue as being fully formed sentences, not the cut up stream of consciousness type

[Anonymous No.23198910]

>>23198882
>well, it seems europeans are very likely to possess one.
It's thanks to Abrahamic faith that we're imbued with the logos, much to the detriment of the pagans on here, who would rather go back to monkee

[Anonymous No.23198911]

>>23198888
i'm going by the twitter replies. these were the despondent npcs.

>>23198880
google it or go to the X thread. I don't spoon feed people for it only to be pointless because they still insist in being argumentative.

>>23198896
do you ever pound beers to make your voice STFU?

[Anonymous No.23198912]

>>23198890
"Do I have an internal monologue? Quiz"
Punch that in to your Google machine.
Then come back and give us your test results.
Then we'll discuss it.

[Anonymous No.23198914]

>>23198890
some people conceive all or most of their thoughts as being in words, forming sentences, like they're talking in their own head.

others save that for complex decision-making thoughts, but when they see an apple, they don't necessarily think a variation of 'that's an apple', in words, it might be more image based.

it's not hard and fast, nor is it particularly scientific.

[Anonymous No.23198924]

>>23198890
Having thoughts is different from having language-based thoughts. That's what "monologue" refers to. It's a voice inside your head. Some other people "think" in images and some others in abstractions.

[Anonymous No.23198925]

>>23198911
I just did
Medium Emily Alexandria

[Anonymous No.23198935]

>>23198911
>npc
yup, had you pegged from the jump.
its funny, you'd think people who value originality of thought would try to have some of their own once in a while.

[Anonymous No.23198947]

>>23198890
best way I can describe it is a voice in your head is narrating your life. you're either thinking it or it just happens naturally. for example, you may see a lust evoking image while browsing /mlp/ and in your head there's a voice saying "holy fuck that horse is hot. should I jack off now or wait until I see a better picture? oh shit I can hear the garage door opening. mom's home. I guess I can save this shit for later, I'm hungry"

[Anonymous No.23198958]

>>23198870
>>23198911
>great thread on the topic TWIITER

no book recommendations on /lit/

Put this conversation in my head
while I imagine an apple rotating
counter clockwise

[Anonymous No.23198961]

>>23198958
>while I imagine an apple rotating
>counter clockwise
Did you imagine it rotating along the x axis or the y axis?

[Anonymous No.23198963]

>>23198947
>lust evoking image while browsing /mlp/
nigga

[Anonymous No.23198962]

>>23198870
I’m not sure if I believe someone thinks in fully fleshed out sentences or even words at all time. There are emotions, images, abstractions, and feelings that work their way into our consciousness all the time and take the place of words and sentences. Let’s say you see someone clowning around on a busy road and about to get hit. Some ways the thoughts can go:

>look at that man. He should be careful. It is dangerous. Oh no, he just got hit!
>retard. Why? OH SHIT!!!
>*ominous feeling* *slight adrenaline pump* *major adrenaline pump*

I think most people think in a mixture. Rarely is it fully formed sentences all the time. That would be weird

[Anonymous No.23198968]

>>23198935
T. butthurt NPC without an inner monologue.

>me me
>driving down country road
>rocking out to no doubt on my 90s playlist
>picture my childhood at the waterpark
>feel like our society will never have the vibrant pop and flare of the 90s again, embodied by the punchy optimism of "i'm just a girl.
>remember how everyone at the park was white
>remember those 15 year old sexy lifeguards with blonde hair.
>feel agony that the children, i don't even have, will never experience this joy.

>be you.
>sperg at the current thing because butthurt NPC.

[Anonymous No.23198969]

The voice inside my head is continuously judging movies as they're playing. "That's a cringe line" "They stole that from X book/movie" "Damn, that's a nice shot, if only the rest didn't suck" "This bitch can't act" "He's Jewish based on his looks". How do I get the little devil to shut up? Most judgmental cunt ever.

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDYqWRDiE No.23198970]

MENTAL MONOLOGUE IS THE VOICE OF CONSCIOUSNESS; THOSE WHO LACK MENTAL MONOLOGUE LACK CONSCIOUSNESS; THOSE WHO LACK CONSCIOUSNESS ARE AVTOMATA; AVTOMATA ARE ATAVIC REMAINS OF BICAMERAL HUMANS.

AVTOMATA HAVE ALWAYS CONSTITUTED THE MAJORITY OF HUMANS, AND THEIR EXISTENCE FADES IN, AND OUT, FROM PUBLIC AWARENESS, INTERMITTENTLY, THROUGHOUT THE CENTURIES; PERSONS HAVE ALWAYS CONSTITUTED THE ABSOLUTE MINORITY OF HUMANS.

[Anonymous No.23198971]

>>23198969
>"He's Jewish based on his looks"
kek doesn't seem like the devil, but your guardian angle talking. Don't listen to the actual devils wanting to silence the voice, so they can replace it with their own and make you into a golem

[Anonymous No.23198977]

>>23198908
>my mind going blank whenever I'm like stressed or something and want to just forget everything.
Can you still reason, put words to thoughts and take action in such a state? If so I think you can see how this discourse makes sense if you just imagine someone who literally is never in any other state than that one.

[Anonymous No.23198980]

i don't think this is literature

[Anonymous No.23198988]

>>23198963
you don't know what you're missing pal

[Anonymous No.23198993]

>>23198890
Inner monologue is being able to talk to yourself in complete sentences in your head, not just random flashes of thoughts. I can talk to myself and "think out loud" in my head as if I'm having a conversation with myself, without vocalizing with my actual voice. And when I'm not talking to myself, I often have a song running in my head the entire day, like a jukebox set on loop.

[Anonymous No.23198995]

>>23198969
>How do I get the little devil to shut up? Most judgmental cunt ever.

idk man. I think it's probably why artists abuse substances. beer helps. music helps. meditating helps. being mindful helps. observe the enviroment around you. I went into the woods and created limericks to shut off my dirt bitch mind from grasping at hunting phantoms. But our struggle remains the same.

>>23198980
you don't think an inner voice is congruent with literature? try reading a book written in first person narrative.

maybe you can pontificate on linguistic determinism.

[Anonymous No.23198999]

>>23198962
Ok, but what we are talking about is a distinction between people that do think in words and people that don't. If you can imagine people thinking different ways at different times you can imagine a person who doesn't think in one of those ways at all. Especially if one of those ways is contingent on a cultural schema like language and not a biolophysical one like images, feelings. In this sense it is at least a believable premise that, unfortunately, we can only entertain based on accounts of peoples individual experience. So when someone says they don't have an inner monologue I do tend to believe them and when many people report that same thing I do tend to take that as data to be used as evidence. I'm not just projecting some aspect onto other people, they claim to have this aspect themselves.

[Anonymous No.23199005]

>>23198970
I remember being in a thread once where people were talking about npc's and I brought up the idea that people tend to use the term to claim that some people are subhuman automata with no agency. Everyone said I was nuts and that it was just about the internal voice.

[Anonymous No.23199012]

>>23198977
I guess I can and I do mostly reason in my head anyway. I just find it hard to believe there's an entire group of people who literally have nothing going on in their heads. Like what do they do during their free time when they have no distractions such as work or even communicating with others? Like they don't think about anything at all?

[Anonymous No.23199018]

>>23199012
>Like they don't think about anything at all?
It's not about non thinking, it's about expressing it in words. Obviously everyone has thoughts, just some are more visual in thinking, and don't bother constructing full on sentences

[Anonymous No.23199024]

>>23199018
>just some are more visual in thinking, and don't bother constructing full on sentences
Those are just images. If you're not thinking in words in your head, you're an NPC.

[Anonymous No.23199029]

>>23199024
retard

[Anonymous No.23199034]

>>23199018
Okay then I can understand that. I always have an inner voice that's distinct from my actual voice so I feel like lacking that is like having a huge portion of yourself being missing.

[Anonymous No.23199035]

>>23198870
10% of the time my inner voice says something useful.
70% of the time it's telling me to kill myself, with elaborate well thought-out justifications
the other 20% is used up repeating N***** and other obscenities

When I'm horny, that 70% spent on "kill yourself" decreases to about 5-10%, and the other 60-65% is used to think of transexual gangbang pornography, my verbal IQ seems to increase by a solid 40 points when I'm describing ways I'd fuck trannies

4chan thinks its spam i had to censor

[Anonymous No.23199036]

>>23199012
It doesn't necessarily mean there is nothing going on in their head. It just means what is going on isn't linguistic in the form of sound. They could still think in images or, god help them, imagine visual text and figures (that whole "open the hud" meme from the good doctor comes to mind). There was this old ted talk I watched by a woman named Temple something who was going on about how her autism made her think solely in images but that this imagistic thinking made her a super genius at designing corals for live stock or some shit. Things like that, and possibly more. We usually think of thought in terms of our dominant faculties (ie sight and sound. Hearing words, visualizing objects, etc) but imagine someone who only thought in smell scapes, or some how thought in tactile sensation. It doesn't have to be void just because it isn't what is usual.

[Anonymous No.23199037]

>>23198961
Dam. Now I can't get the red granny Smith out
of my mind rotating counter clockwise, out of plane.

[Anonymous No.23199038]

>>23198999
Most people are probably poor at translating their thoughts. Even if one thinks they think in sentences all the time it’s probably not the case. On the reverse I find it hard to believe that words don’t make it into anyone’s conscious thoughts. Surely everyone can remember a song they’ve heard a bunch which includes lyrics, aka words? I just think that sentences, and to a lesser extent, words aren’t always playing in someone’s head. Surely everyone has memories as well. How does a memory work if there was nothing spoken during that memory? Consciousness is so vast that it’s impossible to convey

[Anonymous No.23199050]

>>23199038
>Consciousness is so vast that it’s impossible to convey
nuh uh obviously consciousness is expressed purely in Shakespearean English, and anything that's not, doesn't exist and you're an NPC

[Anonymous No.23199060]

>>23199036
I mean like a blind person wouldn't think in visuals or a deaf person wouldn't hear voices in their head. I think everyone thinks in a variety of ways so they have an inner voice but can also conjure up images. I also think of ideas or images in tandem with an actual voice I can hear in my head. I don't think there's somebody out there who only has dialogues in their head or images unless their brain literally works differently like autism or them being blind.

[Anonymous No.23199064]

>>23199050
Seriously though, even people who think they have an internal monologue running all the time probably don’t. Often I’ll think in a sentence and then my mind just takes over with associations, feelings, emotions, abstractions, memories…think about the most important event in your life. You will probably have to force yourself to think about it in nothing but words and it would seem stilted and lose power

[Anonymous No.23199073]

it's just like Victor Hugo says, a man has

[Anonymous No.23199080]

>>23199038
>Consciousness is so vast that it’s impossible to convey
I agree, which is why, unfortunately, I have to take people at their word when they say that an inner monologue never occurs in their mind. One, because it is the only data we can work from on the subject, and two because consciousness is so tricky and weird that, at least to my assessment, work any myriad of ways while still appearing to work the same from the outside. You ask how does memory work in the event of remembering say a conversation without an inner monologue. The short answer is strangely. A possible formulation could be that the whole time a person without an inner monologue is in a conversation they are registering the conversation in the form of the images they express and the images the other person invokes, and those images are all that is stored, and such a mind could access that information and draw the same conclusions from it and make the same decisions anyone that did have an inner monologue and did remember the actual speech of the conversation would. Thats neither here nor there but the possibility of it and the data we have available plus the knowledge that consciousness is weird gives me enough credence to entertain it as a possibility. I do think that there is a hefty amount of people that claim to not have inner monologues that actually do, either due to a bad interpretation of what an inner monologue is or because its seen as trendy or whatever, but I certainly don't think that we can say it is impossible that some of these people don't know their own minds well enough to report on it. I definitely wouldn't claim to know their minds better than them without at least discussing the topic with them myself.

[Anonymous No.23199088]

>>23199060
>like a blind person wouldn't think in visuals
Actually there was a cool video I watched with a guy that learned how to draw real objects by feeling them and he drew them with depth considerations, which would suggest he was at least "visualizing" the objects in a 3D space. Though who is really to say if he actually "visualized" them. But thats just a fun anecdote.

[Anonymous No.23199097]

>>23199060
>I don't think there's somebody out there who only has dialogues in their head or images unless their brain literally works differently like autism or them being blind.
I guess my question is "why not?" Human consciousness is not very well understood. Perhaps there are subtle ways a brain can make up for the lack of the others in their absence. I certainly don't think it can be ruled out but I would like to see you try.

[Anonymous No.23199101]

>>23198968
>can only view people in dichotomatic extremes
>needs everyone who makes him uncomfortable to be a part of the enemy faction
>doesnt see the irony at all
you people like false piety, so here's a Bible passage for you
>And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Matthew 7:3

[Anonymous No.23199105]

>>23199080
What are words but symbols anyway? The people who say they don’t think in any words I don’t think have examined their consciousness too closely. The reverse side is people who say they only think in words and have an inner monologue running at all times that can be clearly put on paper and remain comprehensible to someone else. I don’t trust neither.

And what is the difference between the imagination and consciousness? Quite a few people have believed that the inner world is god. I’m sure if anyone could cut out their imagination and transpose it on reality it would swamp the world. Putting someone’s consciousness into words is impossible. The mind and soul will remain incomprehensible and potent

[Anonymous No.23199119]

irony that greeks and romans likely didn't have an internal monologue

[Anonymous No.23199122]

>>23198870
> it seems like east Asians are a big portion of these people
Half Asian half European, and obviously I have an internal monologue (just like everyone on /lit/), and literally all of my family have one too (I mean, the average Asian IQ is higher than the average for Europeans, what sense would it make for them to lack inner speech?)

I have serious doubts that 30-50% of people have no inner voice. I remember the study and it seems that there could be some selection for gender studies type academics. Literally even the dumbest people I know irl have one, I know a literal sub 100 and he reports having inner speech.

[Anonymous No.23199123]

>>23199105
this is why the internal monologue topic is no actually something worth discussing.
it's just an excuse for people to dehumanize their enemies, usually class or race based.

[Anonymous No.23199126]

>>23198870
>it's amazing to me that 30-50% of the population has no inner voice
This is a lie and is just an attempt to make yourself feel superior the majority of the population. You're not special for having an inner voice. What will make you special is if you stack some bread and get some bitches on your dick... nigga.

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199130]

>>23198870
Reddit spacing, also I think in complete thoughts and don't have to explain them to myself, because that is what total fucking retards do.

[Anonymous No.23199131]

>>23199122
>>23199122
>the average Asian IQ is higher than the average for Europeans, what sense would it make for them to lack inner speech?
Because it might not be related to IQ but to other factors.

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199134]

>>23198910
oh fuck the fuck off, kike. pythagoras invented monotheism back when you assholes were still arguing about ba'al

[Anonymous No.23199135]

>>23199126
2/10 bait

[Anonymous No.23199137]

>>23199122
have you ever questioned why you assume an inner monologue has something to do with intelligence, namely that having one means you should be?
this is one of the stranger assumptions I see in race politics, given the lack of accurate reporting.

[Anonymous No.23199146]

>>23199137
I mean, I would assume that one with a sub-90 IQ would just have less going on in his head. There are certainly stupid people with internal monologues, but I think that's just because majority of people are smart enough to carry internal monologues in the first place (since it's not necessarily intellectually demanding to carry one)

Now that you mention it though, I don't see why anyone would be incapable of carrying an internal monologue. I mean, if you can use your mind's ear to imagine sounds, surely you can similarly say whatever you want to yourself via that internal channel.

[Anonymous No.23199157]

>>23199146
>I mean
>surely
You don't sound very sure.

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199165]

>>23199146
IQ is jew science invented to promote jews. !!FACT!!

[Anonymous No.23199170]

>>23199146
IQ is logic. There have been brilliantly creative people who didn’t have strong logic or problem solving skills or pattern recognition

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199175]

>>23199170
>handwaves logic
Yeah Sylvia Plath was such a genius, that's why she's dead and Alonzo Church invented computers. Fucktard

[Anonymous No.23199177]

I'm picturing a white girl twirling on a black penis, I'm also debating Kantian Idealism with my knowledge of Christoph Gottfried Bardili, also I am unvaccinated and uncircumcised so get owned all of you faggots

[Anonymous No.23199178]

I wish I didn’t because that faggot is always trying to get me to kill myself

[Anonymous No.23199186]

I thought I have an internal monologue but everybody in this thread seems to speak of their internal monologues as if it's something apart from themselves that they have no control over.

Am I an NPC bros? I obviously have inner speech but I recognize it as my own voice and I have full control over it. Have I Jewed myself into believing I have inner speech when I don't?

[Anonymous No.23199190]

>>23199186
nah, you're good.

[Anonymous No.23199192]

>>23198870
I don't buy that having an internal monologue automatically places you one higher than the non-havers. Almost all people live very uninteresting lives. There are likely important distinctions in how the thought is formulated than sounded.

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199194]

>>23199177
Yeah you are a fucking retard who doesn't understand the role of the dasein in revealing the ontic to the ontological, and also is caught up in some kind of pleasure bullshit what Kierkegaard would call an undeveloped human being. Epicureans make me fucking sick, in the soul and and the nous.

[Anonymous No.23199195]

>>23199175
>there's only one way of being le genius, to make le tech or le science
kys

[Anonymous No.23199198]

>>23199186
it's doubtful you have anything approaching full control of your thoughts.
only schizos think their inner voice is coming from outside, everyone else knows their intrusive thoughts aren't actually foreign.

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199203]

>>23199195
Oh, but you apparently can't read, and are going to go straight for the strawman? Fuck you, illiterate negro

[Anonymous No.23199204]

>>23199186
I think of my inner voice as my truest self but sometimes it's hard to see it as myself so I like to distance myself from it since it helps me cope with life. I know that sounds weird but basically what I think about doesn't usually doesn't align with what I do or how I interact with the world around me. But yeah I envy you for having full control over it because I feel like i have schizophrenia sometimes.

[Anonymous No.23199214]

>>23199203
You could've mentioned any actual literary example. Instead you went full oh-my-science and used sarcasm (the most reddit type of "humor").

[Anonymous No.23199216]

>>23199195
What other way?

[Anonymous No.23199219]

>>23199194
i-I kneel

[Anonymous No.23199220]

>>23199204
look into mindfulness meditation.
your inner voice is not a friend or an enemy, and if it's causing you distress, there are tools to provide a little relief.

[Anonymous No.23199221]

>>23199105
>What are words but symbols anyway? The people who say they don’t think in any words I don’t think have examined their consciousness too closely.
Specifically in the form of a monologue they are symbols that specifically register as audible phenomena, so to say "I don't have an internal monologue" is probably akin here to saying "I don't have thoughts that register as audible phenomena." I definitely think this is possible, it seems inevitable to me in someone that is born deaf for example. And if it can happen overtly like in the case where someone doesn't have the faculty to register aural phenomena at all, it could happen more subtly. For example, one could imagine a kind of extreme synesthesia (in which a brain is wired to interpret one source of stimuli as multiple types of sensation) where a sound is picked up by a functioning ear drum, but the brain is wired so weirdly that the sound registers solely as visual stimulation, completely excluding the aural sensation passed the vibration of the eardrum (which one could argue is a tactile sensation). In this sense a person would have no access to an internal monologue as defined as "words that register as aural stimulation" and yet would still interact with speech externally as normal. But internally as weird shapes. So in a sense I agree with you that it is still interacting with symbols, that fact is kind of only half the story in a conversation about internal monologues. Again, I would agree that at least some people that make claims about their own consciousness are probably in error. But I have to say that I find a persons account of what they experience more compelling evidence than some third parties account about what they experience.
>And what is the difference between the imagination and consciousness?
Great question. I got nothing lol. I often tussle with the role that imagination plays on the way that the brain mediates our sensory information, I can see it also playing a decent roll in the way it plays with the back end to present our internal world to out ego selves. I have never come to any satisfying ends to the former idea, I bet I am even less likely to come to anything about the later.
>>23199123
I think its a great discussion to have if for the sole purpose that it gets me examining my inner workings and the possibility of other peoples being weirdly different. I do agree with you however that it is very easy to take that and use it to creat Others out of your fellow man. I try to keep clear of that part of the conversation and outline ways that a different kind of thinking can function just as well as any other, in some instances (like in temples corals) may function better. I also always thought it was strange to use a term like NPC for someone who is less than you when, in game terms, it means a player character controlled by the game master, which would be god. They would be literally avatars of god.

[Anonymous No.23199223]

>>23199216
art

[Anonymous No.23199226]

/lit/ went from dunking on people reading along in their heads to calling everyone who doesnt an NPC. I find it hilarious the dudes reading in their heads are trying to act all superior now

[Anonymous No.23199228]

>>23199198
> it's doubtful you have anything approaching full control of your thoughts.
Maybe so. I mean, sometimes it goes off automatically, but I also drive my car on autopilot sometimes when I'm not really paying attention to the road.

> only schizos think their inner voice is coming from outside, everyone else knows their intrusive thoughts aren't actually foreign.
I never understood how this could happen. I mean, obviously I'm hearing my internal monologue through my mind's ear and not my actual ears. Similar to how I can visualize an object in my head and know that it obviously isn't in front of me in reality. Unless I'm halfway asleep or sleep deprived it seems impossible to not distinguish between internal and external sensory input

[Anonymous No.23199230]

>>23199223
Is Subjective and manipulated by marketing.
Tech and science not so much

[Anonymous No.23199233]

>>23199226
Nice cope.

[Anonymous No.23199234]

>>23199186
No dude, you got one. I can control mine and some times it interjects. I think thats just how thoughts work and not so much about the form those thoughts take. Fun anecdote, I learned to change the voice of my narrator pretty young (I attribute it to being read too a lot), so now I read Lovrcraft stories in Wayne Junes and there is nothing Howard or Wayne can do to stop me!

[Anonymous No.23199237]

>>23199230
lol

[Anonymous No.23199238]

>>23199228
schizophrenia is pretty fucked, they can't tell between an imagined sound and a real one, they register the same.

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDYqWRDiE No.23199239]

>>23199005


YOU WERE IN A THREAD FULL OF AVTOMATA.

SOMETIMES, WITHOUT APPARENT CAUSE, AT SOME RANDOM TIME OF DAY, I GET A SUPERLUCID MOMENT, IN WHICH I SUDDENLY FEEL AS I WERE IN A «BODYSNATCHERS» «MOVIE».


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk2gIdLgwz4

[Anonymous No.23199241]

>>23199233
Inner voice slows down how fast you read, can you seriously not comprehend something unless you hear yourself say it in your head?

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199247]

>>23199214
I don't owe you anything, also, fuck you, you dumb kike nigger.

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDYqWRDiE No.23199249]

>>23199005


YOU WERE IN A THREAD FULL OF AVTOMATA.

SOMETIMES, WITHOUT APPARENT CAUSE, AT SOME RANDOM TIME OF DAY, I GET A SUPERLUCID MOMENT, IN WHICH I SUDDENLY FEEL AS IF I WERE IN A «BODYSNATCHERS» «MOVIE».


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk2gIdLgwz4

[Anonymous No.23199250]

>>23199241
inner voice let's me read every book as Morgan Freemon
checkmate, abstract thoughtform bros

[Anonymous No.23199251]

>>23199234
I envy your ability to change the narrator. My "internal narrator" kinda just has a "null" voice if that makes sense. Like, there's a voice, but it doesn't have any distinguishing features whatsoever. When I'm halfway asleep though, it seems like it can take the form of pretty much any voice (like a woman, or an old man, etc.)

[Anonymous No.23199252]

>>23199247
lol seethe harder

[Anonymous No.23199255]

>>23199241
It does, and thats a bad thing? I always thought that something of the artistry of language is lost if you don't listen to it as well as see it, also I think that reading too fast leads to an increase in missed information, even if you are really good at speed reading I can't help but think the nuances of meaning need to be digested more slowly to be fully understood.

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199256]

>>23199249
this fucking faggot using latin instead of koine greek

[Anonymous No.23199259]

>>23199241
This has been debunked

[Anonymous No.23199261]

>>23199255
Haven't you been so into a book that you couldn't help but read fast to see what happens next. I almost never subvocalize in that case.

[Anonymous No.23199263]

>>23199256
Latin is better than Greek.

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199264]

>>23199252
if by seethe you mean masturbate in a grocery store bathroom then yes i am way ahead of you
newfag

[Anonymous No.23199267]

>>23199251
If it can take the form of something else naturally you can probably make it with some practice. I would like to emphasize that this is a skill I learned and definitely still have to turn on with a little effort. Try finding a narrator you like reading a book you own, follow along with their reading, and every so often stop their reading and start reading where they left off. See if you can hold on to the voice for a little bit.

[Bill Russell Bukowski No.23199271]

>>23199263
no it isn't you illiterate heretic
the bible was written in greek
bastard translations were written in latin
wise men like porphyry, plotinus, iamblichus, and plato wrote in greek
fucking tryhard faggots like augustine of hippo only got that woke because marius victorinus translated it to his bastard language

[Anonymous No.23199270]

>>23199255
It makes poetry soulless.

[Anonymous No.23199276]

>>23198870
I thought you guys were crazy the first time I heard people talk to themselves in their head. Are you completely unable to think about something unless you say it aloud in your head or how does that work. Surely you dont inner monologue your dreams as well?

[Anonymous No.23199277]

>>23198870
what is inner monologue even? like when to go take a shit there's a voice in your head that goes
>I am walking to toilet
>I am sitting on toilet
>I am pushing the shit out
>I am feeling good
>I am wiping my ass
>I am flushing
like seriously?

[Anonymous No.23199279]

>>23199226
I’ve always known when I’m in the zone or really connecting with the writer when both happen. The words are flowing perfectly and images, feelings, etc snowball around the words

[Anonymous No.23199283]

>>23199270
Sure but if you are slogging through Infinite Jest or whatever why would you care that much

[Anonymous No.23199284]

>>23199261
I don't think I have actually. I'm a "the value is in the build up and the atmosphere" kind of guy though so I kinda don't see the point in the resolution without all of what leads up to it. I can't help but think that if I did what you suggest I would just end up having to go back and read those parts again to get the full flavor, but that the flavor would be changed by having gotten to the end too fast. But that could just be because I'm not good at speed reading.

[Anonymous No.23199289]

>>23199271
>the bible was written in greek
Not really. Only the New Testament, retarded nigger. And even then, so what? Latin is a better language, technically speaking.

[Anonymous No.23199290]

>>23199276
>>23199277
not quite, but I know that when I'm reading some bullshit on my phone, I definitely think in sentences, subvocally.

[Anonymous No.23199292]

>>23199270
Thats what I was thinking. You kinda have to hear poetry. And to that effect, you kind of have to hear prose in order to get the poetic dimension of it.

[Anonymous No.23199296]

>>23199283
It's simple. I stop reading things I don't like.

[Anonymous No.23199298]

>>23199271
Hey, seething, degenerate, potty mouth, onanist,
what about, St Jerome?

[Anonymous No.23199299]

I hate when I'm falling asleep and suddenly the voice yells "WHOA! I feel good! (toodoo toodoo toodoo dah) I knew that I would, now."

[Anonymous No.23199300]

>>23199261
I think every reader has had to reign in the horses at one time or another when something was gripping them or their soul was vibrating with the words

[Anonymous No.23199304]

>>23199290
reading is different than pure thinking. when I'm typing this out right now I'm saying these words in my head. but when I'm hungry or whatever I don't actually form a sentence and announce to myself that I am hungry.

[Anonymous No.23199309]

>>23198870
Does it fucking matter at the end of the day? Will society as a whole collapse because a sizable portion of the population don’t have little voices in their head? Do you feel smug about that?

[Anonymous No.23199312]

>>23199283
If it feels like a slog I wouldn't even bother speed reading it honestly.

[Anonymous No.23199314]

I do but mine has tourette's and won't stop shouting about things like vore and eating ass

I had three inner voices at one point

[Anonymous No.23199318]

>>23199304
you're never like, 'hmm, do I still have some ham left...'?
or, 'fuck, I forgot to do my taxes!'

[Anonymous No.23199320]

>>23198870
That isn't what that article is saying
>According to Hulburt, not many people have an inner monologue 100 per cent of the time, but most do sometimes. He estimates that inner monologue is a frequent thing for 30 to 50 per cent of people.
That means nearly everyone has an inner monologue but they aren't using it as frequently as others. Like this guy pointed out
>>23199277
You don't need to inner monologue literally everything you do and seems like a hinderance if anything.

[Anonymous No.23199321]

>>23198870
I possess one but recognize that it is a primitive and flawed foreign installation that holds us back from higher levels of thought and perception.

[Anonymous No.23199324]

>>23198908
Some people think with emotions instead of words. They literally have no inner voice. How do you think deaf people are able to think?

[Anonymous No.23199325]

>>23199277
Motor functions are largely automatic but at least once a day I do hear in my head "I gotta take a shit!"
>>23199276
Nah, I can think in images too. Having an internal monologue does not automatically mean you have aphantasia.

[Anonymous No.23199333]

>>23199321
this.
thoughtwords are a hindrance, once you're a little more awake.

[Anonymous No.23199338]

>>23198970
>>23199249

Say what you want about the nonce but this is absolutely true.

[Anonymous No.23199344]

>>23199318
>>23199325
yeah, sometimes I do talk to myself but those are more like imaginary dialogues with someone and not monologues. I think there's a huge difference.

[Anonymous No.23199345]

>>23199338
incorrect.

[Anonymous No.23199356]

>>23199344
I wouldn't get to hung up on the word used.
I imagine a lot of inner monologuing does in fact function more like a dialog, 'you' are asking 'yourself' questions, or bouncing ideas off a mental wall, so to speak.

[Anonymous No.23199368]

I wish I had less of an inner voice, living in your head sucks.

[Anonymous No.23199369]

>>23199368
mindfulness meditation

[Anonymous No.23199372]

>>23199369
how?

[Anonymous No.23199382]

>>23199372
the book 10% Happier was instrumental to me.
grab it off z-lib.

[Anonymous No.23199390]

I do and I'm trying to shut it off because it's an inherently a bad trait for efficient reading.

[Anonymous No.23199398]

>>23198870
It’s actually hard to banish your inner monologue. People write books about it.
> less thinking more easy to sleeping

[Anonymous No.23199435]

>>23199271
Wrong

[Anonymous No.23199436]

>>23199344
Oh yeah definitely. I think inner monologue is short hand for "thoughts that register as aural stimulation in the form of language."

[Anonymous No.23199449]

>>23199368
>>23199369
Yup. I had to get in to mindfulness meditation to help with my constantly hearing music in the background of my thoughts. Its not gone but I can shut it off with effort if I need to and whats more and what I find easier to maintain is that I now have control of what song is playing, so now I can switch it to instrumental music so it doesn't interfere so much with my actual thinking, or at least to a song I don't hate.

[Anonymous No.23199455]

>>23199449
You can just EQ out the frequencies your thoughts take up so the music doesn't muddy them up and it would be fine

[Anonymous No.23199477]

>>23199455
I kind of can separate them, the problem is more like when one channel is saying one thing and another channel is saying another thing some times the words get mixed up. The music is largely in the background now though. Unless I feel like shit.

[Anonymous No.23200372]

i think everyone has an inner monologue, but for most it's more subconscious/passive. if you are having articulate conversation with yourself that you could reference in verbatim (at all times)... that isn't normal, is it?

[Anonymous No.23200381]

>>23200372
actually i'm sure that this wouldn't be normal-- consider how poorly people are at self-reflection. once you've articulated your thoughts, you now have a layer of language influencing your feelings. your hasty, idiotic feelings.

there's one thing to working through a conversation in your head, or having moments, but if you existed behind a layer of language you're probably suffering from mental illness or something.

[Anonymous No.23200408]

>>23199035
>when I'm describing ways I'd fuck trannies
i want to read that nigga

[Anonymous No.23200416]

>can think with monologue if I want, each thought forming complete sentences
>can think in visuals only, without any words
>can even think without using either, though with some difficulty
the last one is really fun. try to recall a memory or think about a hypothetical future situation without visualizing it or repeating any key words in your mind. you're dependent on the vague but specific feelings you had in response to similar events in the past.

[Anonymous No.23200431]

>>23200416
i believe this is standard.

[Anonymous No.23200469]

>>23198870
It's literally just narcissism. I bet you think have fucking synesthesia and astigmatism too. People are so desperate to sort themselves into little bullshit identity groupings that they overthink completely normal subjective shit to the point where they are convinced that they have some kind of special skill just because they are aware that their fucking brain is having thoughts. You're not fucking special, cunt. Some people tend to narrativize things more than others. There is no reason for you to make it part of your fucking personal identity. Stop reflecting on your own tedious fucking existence for one second and contribute to the world around you.

[Anonymous No.23200471]

I do and I don't. It's not like I need to think in complete sentences.
I can. I can also think in pictures, or sensations like "I want food".

[Anonymous No.23200473]

>>23200416
everyone can do all this shit, you wannabe unicorn faggot

[Anonymous No.23200475]

>>23200473
>everyone can do all this shit,
Clearly not. NPCs have revealed themselves.

[Anonymous No.23200482]

>>23200469
I'm a cis het mixed white/hispanic INTJ SoCal libertarian polyromantic pro-vax pro-choice team Marvel Windows PC gamer Boston Red Sox Taylor Swift stan and I hear Yanny and the dress is blue and black and I have an inner monologue and I have mild ADHD, synesthesia, body dysmorphia, fibromyalgia and astigmatism and this offends me

[Anonymous No.23200489]

>>23200475
OK bro, deep down you really are better than other people and eventually you will get the respect you deserve, you're not just a narcissistic faggot desperately coping with his own mediocrity

[Anonymous No.23200643]

>>23198870
Not only an "inner voice" but moreso even inner cinematographic vision. When i'm thinking about something, or doing something, i imagine from a 3rd view perspective what it looks like what i'm doing as if i am an actor for a movie. When i am reading, it is like i'm reading aloud to myself, but in my head. So even when you reply to this text here, i will narrate it in my head with my own voice, like reading a bedtime story to a child, the child is my mind reading to itself basically.

[Anonymous No.23200647]

>>23200489
I am better than most, yes. Unsure why that bothers you.

[Anonymous No.23200761]

>>23198962
this is really interesting, i think that the more impressive your lexicon of concepts, the less surprised or emotitonal you are and hence, the more you verbalize, normies can't do this as well because they are always getting surprised or distracted by emotions, it's advantageous in that they don't have to think as much while doing stuff but also problematic because it makes solving problems suboptimal

[Anonymous No.23200767]

>>23198870
Thought as such is not strictly linear Homunculus stenography and parroting.

>>23198878
>How would you feel if you hadn't written this yesterday morning

[Anonymous No.23200803]

>>23198870
>great thread on this topic
Hi, Josh! Would you mind awfully buying an ad if you're going to be such an obvious shill on 4chan.org (formerly 4channel)?

[Anonymous No.23200825]

if you can't come up with entire paragraphs of descriptions, explanations or polemics in your head at a moment's notice upon encountering novelty, then you are an npc

[Anonymous No.23200846]

Like most things there are grades to this. I usually think in sentences but if I'm engaged in something outside my own mind I have to divide my attention between my thoughts and whatever it is I'm doing, so instead of a distinct sentence I might think a bit of a phrase and then the next part of the "sentence" might be me typing something out or performing an action. If I'm reading a text I won't even "sound out" the words in my head so much as see the shapes of the words/sentences and "hear" them without taking the time to mentally "say" them, if that makes sense.

[Anonymous No.23200969]

>>23198870
How many of you who think primarily in "inner monologue" are monolingual? For example when I think of a car I have both "car" and "auto" labels associated with a simplified visual idea of a motorized wagon with wheels. This is expanded to all concepts from form to action. The visual root symbols and associations between them are the stuff I think in, and I have to kind of translate it into a language others get.

[Anonymous No.23201025]

>>23199101
>>can only view people in dichotomatic extremes
>>needs everyone who makes him uncomfortable to be a part of the enemy faction

back to plebbit faggot.

[Anonymous No.23201029]

>>23199122
>>23199131

>the bug people without individuality are smarter
>check mate.

I think you may be missing the point.

[Anonymous No.23201036]

>>23201025
see?
do you even know you're doing it?

[Anonymous No.23201039]

>>23201029
oh, is the point to be racist?
is that what this thread is about?
what's the point?

[Anonymous No.23201082]

I have an internal monologue sometimes but sometimes it goes away

[Anonymous No.23201627]

>>23198908
I will do this sometimes but often I will “sing” with my inner voice or just chant a prayer over and over. I think this is part of why I’m so calm but idk.

[Anonymous No.23201681]

I have inner voice, inner eye and inner kinesthesis, aka the trifecta of thought.

[Anonymous No.23201816]

>>23198890
The technical explanation is that some people can produce narrative overviews of what they're doing, alongside what they've done or will do in the future. This is a kind of dynamic narrator which can fractionate into multiple personalities so that the ego can simulate conversations not only with introjects of other people (like arguing with an ex gf in the shower lmao) or creating brand new personalities by projecting ideas and characters logical qualities onto the voices.

Basically, 70% of the planet can't do this. It renders them functionally narcissistic. Non-inner monologue people just kinda think in images and dream symbols. They get hungry, and then their body just reaches a threshold where they'll stop what they're doing and consume food in a retarded daze. There's no "oh, man, I'm hungry. I ate shit yesterday. I don't want to make something, but I need to eat better... maybe I can make some chicken wrapped in bacon and broccoli? Yeah that sounds good. If I ate that pizza I'd feel bad for sure."

Instead the just kinda ... enter into a dream reverie and consume what's easiest by default.

[Anonymous No.23202321]

>>23201816
nonsense.

[Anonymous No.23202351]

i have an inner monologue, when im reading this thread, its being read in me head. but sometimes i think to myself. do you think these empty headed people are more visual thinkers?

[Anonymous No.23202679]

>>23198870
"Inner voice" implies an inner sense, and most "people" are as vacuous as they are superficial. As a result, there are always less people than there are human beings.

[Anonymous No.23202964]

When Descartes said cogito ergo sum was he referring explicitly to inner speech or just cognitive activity in general?
Excluding the mentally disabled, I'm probably as close to an NPC as it gets, and I don't have an interior monologue. I can think in words when the thought directly pertains to language (reciting lyrics, recalling a conversation, drafting replies as I write this). But I cannot talk to myself or direct language towards general thought. In my case I think it is downstream from some greater psychological deficiency rather than its cause. One thing I've noticed from these discussions is that those with an IM give immense primacy to speech when they define thought. As if the two are synonymous. I find that very interesting as someone on the outside.
Also OP didn't cite anything for his 30-50% claim but I'd bet he's referring to a particular study which is commonly misrepresented. Subjects were given a buzzer to carry on their person at all times, it would go off something like 10 times a day and subjects would report what was going on in their head in that exact moment (I think with a questionnaire). They found that in something like 30% of observations no experience of verbal thought was recorded. This isn't the same thing as 30% of people lacking the ability to think verbally. It's a spectrum. I would guess that 90% of people think primarily in speech.

[Anonymous No.23204072]

Bump

[Anonymous No.23204091]

>>23198908
I spoke with my Japanese (born and living in Japan) partner about this; she has no internal monologue either (but got quite upset when I started calling her retarded or a puppet with an empty head)

Anyways, she claims that until I pointed this out, she thought thought bubbles in comics were just a literary device. She didn't realize people have verbalized thoughts the same way they have verbalized language. She legitimately thought it was just an artistic way of conveying feelings for the reader.

I was shocked, and also bothered by how little she was bothered by this. It felt like the woman I was living with for a decade was just an NPC, and I still don't think I've really recovered from it.

[Anonymous No.23204092]

Im convinced this is just people sniffing their own farts because they misunderstand what is actually going on. If anything having to read out every single thing you read or think then you are probably the real NPC.

[Anonymous No.23204495]

>>23204091
somone in the X thread said had the same comment about thinking it was a "literally device". Many east asians seem to not have an inner voice anecdotally.


>>23204092
that's a frequent comment. really, it would be good to hear how you people without an inner voice grapple with philosophy, and the horrors of life. It's never articulated so i'm left to assume most of you don't. Unless you write it down or something.

[Anonymous No.23204522]

>>23204495
In the case of Japan, most people lack the ability to handle conflict or articulate their feelings. That's ingrained into the culture at this point, which is why it's probably it unusual to not have an internal voice.

My partner has been mind broken by living with me though, so I think having that deficiency exposed and put to the test has really done some lasting damage.

[Anonymous No.23204623]

>>23204522
there are great japanese artists. The east asian languages probably have a role in this. Their languages are inefficient symbol combinations, very abstract and utilize spatial ability. However, asians born inside the U.S. still demonstrate this characteristic.

[Anonymous No.23204697]

People with lower IQs are the only ones who have inner dialogues. Imagine only being able to think as fast as a monologue. My thoughts are abstract and speedy.

This is yet another way to feel good about yourselves without achieving anything, like with height and IQ.

[Anonymous No.23204842]

>>23198870
>midwits are smug about thinking training wheels
Epic. All of your body somehow is able to regulate itself without an inner monologue, yet these people remain convinced the archaic "reading out loud" style of thought is somehow superior. It'd be funny if it wasn't kind of sad.

[Anonymous No.23204858]

>>23204495
>the horrors of life
lmao. This is a prime example of the inferiority of inner monologue, the hysteria stemming from past trauma confused for being (You).

[Anonymous No.23204865]

>>23198890
I am very much certain that I have an inner monologue.

[Anonymous No.23204877]

>>23198911
I don’t like beer but when I get drunk my internal monologue is a bit less insufferable

[Anonymous No.23204884]

>>23204697
>insecure manlet
They never learn.

[Anonymous No.23204896]

>>23204623
I'm not denying that Japanese art isn't great. But I think a big part of what we mystify about Japan is to a large extent reflective of this non-verbal aspect to thought. There's an appreciation for 和 and orderliness and the way things should be, as opposed to western thought which is rooted in questioning why things are the way they are.

[Anonymous No.23204955]

>>23204697
>>23204842
>>23204858

the screeching cope of the aspie? Is life a math problem to solve for you? most people with inner voice don't use it exclusively. But obviously, the asperger big brains have higher standard IQs.

Does the face of Ophelia make you feel anything?

"They are full of mystery: nothing in them is what it seems. You can see from the expression in the subject’s eyes that often she is searching for something outside the canvas. The effect is bewitching, mesmerizing- like my own world in the theatre.”

[Anonymous No.23204967]

>>23204955
>the cornered animal attacks
Wow, no one saw this one coming.
>Does the face of Ophelia make you feel anything?
big erection

[Anonymous No.23204986]

>>23204967
>>the cornered animal attacks
>Wow, no one saw this one coming.

>avoiding the question this hard.

[Anonymous No.23204990]

>>23204986
Who's avoiding that dead chick is hot and my dick agrees.

[Anonymous No.23205000]

>>23198988
holy fuck that horse is hot. should I jack off now or wait until I see a better picture?

[Anonymous No.23205004]

I trained myself to think without having to subvocalize like a troglodyte. You guys will never be able to read as fast

[Anonymous No.23205025]

>>23205004
They can't read quickly because their brains can only process information at a limited rate, which is bottlenecked by their IQ.

[Anonymous No.23205033]

>>23204884
>not even denying

[Anonymous No.23205050]

>>23204955
I might be autistic, but I am not an aspie. My brain is restless, too impatient to wait for the full sentence to be spoken when the meaning has already been conveyed.
All my life, teachers have criticized me for skipping steps when writing math answers. While my peers wrote lots of intermediate steps to come to a conclusion, I skipped them entirely. The intermediate steps had always seemed like a waste of time and redundant to me.

[Anonymous No.23205059]

Do NPCs dream at all? Might be its defining feature.

[Anonymous No.23205066]

>>23205059
No sir, dreaming is only for high IQ people like you and me 4chads!

[Anonymous No.23205072]

>>23205066
Every main character has a dream from time to time.

[Anonymous No.23205082]

>>23205072
Life is just like a video game!

[Anonymous No.23205137]

>>23198910
I know not if this be bait, but Islam and Christianity took a lot from “pagan” Platonism

[Anonymous No.23205162]

>>23199119
>Immersed in some problem at dawn, he stood in the same spot considering it; and when he found it a tough one, he would not give it up but stood there trying. The time drew on to midday, and the men began to notice him, and said to one another in wonder: ‘Socrates has been standing there in a study ever since dawn!’
I think it’s safe to say they did at least Socrates did

[Anonymous No.23205164]

>children using videogame metaphors to feel smug about nothing
also, what's with the specifically anti-asian spin?
can one of you that finds this interesting define for me:
- the observations being made about inner monologuing
- the hypothesis that is being formed from these observations
- how these hypotheses are being tested?

[Anonymous No.23205167]

>>23205164
Nerd

[Anonymous No.23205172]

>>23205167
thought not, but I figured I'd give you the opportunity.

[Anonymous No.23205180]

>>23205164
Dumb tourist

[Anonymous No.23205192]

>>23198924
>Some other people "think" in images and some others in abstractions.
It feels good to be a non-retard who can do all three.

[Anonymous No.23205196]

>>23205180
oh no, is your space being invaded?
guess you'll have to find somewhere else to go.

[Anonymous No.23205200]

I dont have an inner monologue, i have an inner factorio. Some days i envy the npcs

[Anonymous No.23205215]

>>23198870
is that le heckin King Stannis?

[Anonymous No.23205222]

>>23202964
>When Descartes said cogito ergo sum was he referring explicitly to inner speech or just cognitive activity in general?
Intersubjectivity and the Will.
Check out Luhmann , Karl Deutsch.

[Anonymous No.23205255]

>>23198870
I can't form original images in my head. I think they call it aphantasia.

I have very vivid dreams, they're not lacking clarity at all. I can REMEMBER things I've seen but calling up a visual memory in my brain is difficult, as if I'm seeing it on a flickering screen in a dark room. I can remember and visualise faces easily so that must be some different process or part of the brain.

when I'm reading a book and a character is described, since I can't construct new images, I'll form a composite of it. usually it'll be someone or something I know with a couple details changed. any time I read about a malevolent AI I just imagine it as evil clank, voice and all.

anyway I say this because a while back the NPC test was being able to visualise a 3d apple inside your head and slice it in half. this inner monologue crap sounds like another arbitrary metric by which intellectual pleibians hope to prove they're born free-thinkers who are just in a rough patch. that's right, I have an inner monologue, therefore I'm going to break free of the lowly place society gave me (by mistake!) any day now.

meta-cognizance is retarded as a baseline. seriously. the ability to mull over your own thoughts while lying in bed staring at the ceiling? people think THAT is somehow useful? it's funny hearing JD's inner monologue in scrubs but that's it. that's quantity of thought over quality of thought kek

[Anonymous No.23205274]

>>23205255
>NPC test
there is no such test, it's just another method to filter people ideologically.
>meta-cognition is retarded
you go too far, our ability to reflect on our thoughts is why we know we them, and is the essence, I believe, of our difference from other animals.

[Anonymous No.23205282]

>>23205274
>...is why we know we *have* them

[Anonymous No.23205301]

>>23205282
>implying people don't confuse reoccurring thoughts to be them all the time
You just failed the npc test.

[Anonymous No.23205308]

>>23205301
>incoherent rambling
yes of course, very good.

[Anonymous No.23205313]

>>23205308
>can't into conversation
>has opinion
Thanks for building the case against you pro bono.

[Anonymous No.23205328]

>>23205313
when you reduce your own point so throughly, how do you expect anyone to interact with it?
what am I even suppose to reply to here
>>23205301?
what are you even replying to?

try outlining an entire thought.

[Anonymous No.23205341]

wow 215 posts about not facing up to the fact that you're kissless virgins who talk to themselves

[Anonymous No.23205342]

>>23205328
Oh, I interpreted you correcting a missing word as a snark, my bad. The idea is that people have thoughts aren't the thoughts themselves. For example, someone internalizing childhood abuse of being called stupid and their inner voice repeats 'You're stupid" and they interpret it as themselves rather than a passing thought. But, we don't disagree it seems so this is moot.

[Anonymous No.23205416]

>>23205342
the idea that the thought is the man seems like a uniquely western problem.
a lot of other cultures adopt a 'leaf on the surface of a river' sort of attitude toward thoughts, there and gone, noted in passing, but not clung to.

I think it's tied into our need to have heroes in our stories, people who we're supposed admire and emulate, which requires us to know the heroes thoughts, in real time.
this is best expressed in language, and if every thought you encounter aside from your own can only be expressed in words, we place a higher value on thoughts expressed in words.

other cultures place their morals elsewhere in a story, sometimes without central heroic figures at all, and I think that changes the emphasis on different thoughtforms.

[Anonymous No.23205431]

>>23205342
NTA. I digged around about this topic, and saw people mentioning that they identify as the voice as their core of the inner experience. I personally identify as the observer.

[Anonymous No.23205436]

>>23205416
> we place a higher value on thoughts expressed in words
This is true, it's the aspect of the sense of identity not being tangible outside of the ego(the hero) for a lot of people so we latch onto it given that there is nothing else to latch onto so people gravitate towards identifying with the most frequent thought.
>there and gone, noted in passing, but not clung to.
I wish this was taught in schools rather than by gurus in self help books. It's difficult to take it seriously when you can perceive you're being sold spiritual shit beyond the depth of a human experience alongside that idea.
>I personally identify as the observer.
Took me several years of focused effort to get here, and I fuck it up sometimes as well especially in emotionally charged situations.

[Anonymous No.23205439]

>>23205436
>>23205431
Forgot to quote.

[Anonymous No.23205521]

>>23198870
Having an inner monologue is for midwits.

[Anonymous No.23205552]

God, I hate this topic. it's everywhere and always gets so much traction. so fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.23205573]

>>23205552
Why do you think it's stupid? All it tells is that there's significant differences in how people operate in their inner experience. It just never occurs to people that such a fundamental thing (to-self) could be different, as it isn't something that can be shared directly. I think grading the ways of the operation is inane though.

[Anonymous No.23205605]

>>23205573
it doesn't tell anything. I don't trust how people report the way they think and imagine. it's stupid like the gradeschool conversation of 'what if my red is your blue'. it's just people talking in circles. semantics. unflasifiable bullshit. I'm leaving this thread. shouldn't have said anything in the first place.

[Anonymous No.23205664]

>>23205605
>what if my red is your blue
The way of thought is even more intangible than that, since with colors even if the experience is different, the label you assign to a given color is unified thanks to the external assignee between people. I'm not sure why you consider that topic stupid either.

If people are bad at reporting their inner experience, doesn't it make sense to try to build better tools for articulate introspection, despite there being the huge barrier of pointing the labels to common processes? Assuming there are such commonalities. This kind of hostility for hard to pin topics is pretty weird to me, I just don't get where it comes from.

[Anonymous No.23206171]

>>23205004
>>23205025
>>23205050
ok big Brain(s). tell us how exactly you form thoughts without sentences? do you like fiction?

>>23205431
>saw people mentioning that they identify as the voice as their core of the inner experience.


yeah, the inner voice is me. I think a lot of people feel this way and it's why not having an inner voice is sort of incomprehensible. Non-inner voice people are unable to articulate their lived experience. some of them seem to be high IQ, but they still can't explain how exactly they think.

[Anonymous No.23206230]

>>23206171
Inner TV with associated feelings? I guess that would be the closest analog. For example if I want to eat something and think of what to make, I "visually browse" (think) through the options like switching channels until something appeals to me. Then I visualise the ingredients I need, where I remember them being, and how to combine them. It's all just visuals as intentions really. How do you view daydreaming as a concept? For me it's quite literally being in such a deep thought that I audiovisually lose track of my surroundings. I can use inner voice if I want, but it isn't the default mode of thinking for me.

[Anonymous No.23206248]

>>23206230
>How do you view daydreaming as a concept? For me it's quite literally being in such a deep thought that I audiovisually lose track of my surroundings. I can use inner voice if I want, but it isn't the default mode of thinking for me.

day dreaming is usual expressed with language, however, I do visualize things as a thought process, but its sort of supplemental. i've been writing fiction, and when i'm writing I visualize everything as if i'm there.

[Anonymous No.23206250]

>>23206248
You never see yourself in the 3rd person?

[Anonymous No.23206273]

>>23198882
I'm asian, i've had them since i was a kid i thought everyone had them it just seems natural
talking to yourself and rationalizing inside your head felt normal

[Anonymous No.23206344]

>>23198870
>the notion that language determines what we can perceive and understand
>concept is academically passe
I'd like to see these "academics" build their own house complete with plumbing, power outlets and central heating without using the language of math.
Stemfags and tradies are immune to this kind of thinking, because everything they do is tested by the real world.
Even if you don't want to be a stemfag everyone should take at least one stem course just so they don't spend the rest of their lives sniffing their own farts.
>>23198970
>ATAVIC REMAINS OF BICAMERAL HUMANS
If that were the case, wouldn't you expect them to have an underdeveloped corpus callosum? A simpler explanation would be that they just don't have an executive ego function. Even if they use words like "I" and "myself" with the correct grammar they're not internally forming a subject-object distinction.
>>23205137
>took a lot from
Corrupted. Anyone who takes a man made book as the word of God is an idolator. Plato and Aristotle tolerated idolatry, but they didn't indulge in it.

[Anonymous No.23206458]

>>23206250
>You never see yourself in the 3rd person?

uh, no. i'm not even sure what this means. my entire concept of who I am relates to me inner monologue, that is ME.

like specifically how do you envision yourself in 3rd person? like in 3rd person narration?

[Anonymous No.23206561]

Some people's thought process is more abstract and centered around imagery and such but people love to think they're a special snowflake and think just because you're incapable of inner monologue you must be an npc or something. It's a meme that really fucking irritates me. I would actually argue that thinking in images and feelings are signs of someone with a higher state of conciousness as everyone is aware that words are kind of limited when it comes to conveying meaning and understanding. And i say this as someone with an inner monologue that never shuts the fuck up and goes on and on 24/7 withought giving me a damn break unless i distract myself with backround noise and mental stimulation.

[Anonymous No.23206585]

>>23205416
maybe, I've read the asian stuff and think it's good, while also arriving at the monologue being very western indeed. I can switch off my im, believe I think faster that way, but monologue could serve to direct it, idk, it's weird.

[Anonymous No.23206586]

>>23198962
My thought process is 90% of the time me pretending I'm having an imaginary conversation with someone. There was even a time where i would practically only think in 4chan posts when i was spending 8+ hours on this site

[Anonymous No.23206605]

>>23199314
Kek i have the same thing. Intrusive thoughts are a pain in the ass

[Anonymous No.23206618]

>>23198870
I don't believe this meme. People without an inner monologue are just dogs or whatever, they know hungry, thirsty etc instinctively and that's it? Is reading and absorbing information not a form of inner monologue?

[Anonymous No.23206638]

>>23206458
Like picture yourself doing something and how it would appear to spectators

[Anonymous No.23206661]

>>23198870
Pretty sure I recently developed an internal monologue, or at the very least I ramped up it's power by a huge factor.
Inspired by Jordan Petersons self authoring program I began journaling. At first it was completely free form. But it was hard at first. I knew I had to write about what I did in a day, and what my goals were, and what I was thinking about but it seemed weird to write it down. But eventually I got good at it.
I learned a ton. I realized how plainly lazy I am. I have goals, but when I'd write about my day I'd realize how little I did to achieve those goals and how I was mostly just doing the bare minimum at my job and spending my excess mental energy feeling shitty about my life. But not actually doing much to change it.
Anyway so I definitely have more direction now.
But in the process I definitely developed a way stronger internal monologue. Before I would only think in words if I was thinking about what I might have to physically speak, like planning a conversation or interview. Or I'd replay social situations and think with words. But now I have an internal dialogue with at least two parts that I use to make decisions, observe the world, etc. Thinking in general you know.
But I'm pretty sure I still have the same basic faculties as I ever did. Thinking in words more has indeed made me clearer in my approach to life. It's also made me better at speaking I think. But before I would still make decisions and have desires and everything I was conscious of. Hard to describe what the other kinds of thinking are like. Surely everyone has the same functions but just uses them to different degrees.

[Anonymous No.23206667]

>>23206586
Same bro. It's usually very one sided though and I'm just speaking to the other person.

[Anonymous No.23206685]

>>23198947
this inner voice actually makes you a retard because I just know these things without a voice telling me. it's like your brain is explaining to a child what they are seeing while high IQs have no need for a narrative voice.

[Anonymous No.23206690]

>>23198970
based Julian enjoyer

[Anonymous No.23206705]

>>23206685
funny how people like you say this often, but never articulate anything comprehensive or meaningful. funny indeed.

[Anonymous No.23206732]

>>23206705
did your inner voice tell you to say that or do you have any thoughts of your own? you can't even conceptualize what I'm trying to say to you and even if you did, you'd have to stare at a wall and talk to yourself for hours and by that time, this thread would be kill.

[Anonymous No.23206748]

>>23206732
I don't need to give myself a voice over for every little action. I don't need to use my inner voice to remind me a left my car windows open.

I will again point you to "linguistic determinism"

Consider this.

>me me
>driving down country road
>rocking out to no doubt on my 90s playlist
>picture my childhood at the waterpark
>feel like our society will never have the vibrant pop and flare of the 90s again, embodied by the punchy optimism of "i'm just a girl.
>remember how everyone at the park was white
>remember those 15 year old sexy lifeguards with blonde hair.
>feel agony that the children, i don't even have, will never experience this joy.

How to you pontificate on the vibrancy of the 90s sun and relate it to the contemporary musical vibes without the use of language?

See, the problem is this: I cannot form dynamically deep musings without the use of language, and i'm not convinced you inner voice deficients can, unless it's relating to something mathematical or spatial.

[Anonymous No.23206772]

>>23206748
ok but we're talking about people who have language, not people who are mutes. what I'm wondering is how inner voice relates to 'divine inspiration' or feelings. remember playing football when you were young and there was that summer smell? do you need language to miss it, remember it, or know that you don't do it anymore and it makes you sad? you don't need to talk this stuff out. there's gaps in the argument while I'm mostly trolling, there can't possibly be people who don't have an inner monologue and it seems to be a definition or understanding problem.

[Anonymous No.23206780]

>>23206748
Must you articulate the feeling of nostalgia? Just picture those ideas in your mind as you experience the feeling. Why do you need language for that?

[Anonymous No.23206800]

>>23198962
i give long, boring lectures to hypothetical people, and act out scenes in my head

typically if i find an idea important ill repeat the words internally once or twice

i have both an undercurrent of emotions and an overcurrent of words constantly flowing though my mind
(but this might just be me)

[Anonymous No.23207130]

You are reading this in a normal voice.
>And this in a quieter voice.

[Anonymous No.23207236]

>>23207130
>You will read this... in my voice.

[Anonymous No.23207241]

>>23206171
You dont have to say the words out in your head to think. Do you have to tell yourself "im hungry" everytime you are about to eat?

[Anonymous No.23207345]

>>23198882
>>23198870
There is a high level kind of monologue that descends from the gods.
When I was younger, a spirit flew into me. I spoke to it. It let me become a part of a cartoon I was watching. I saw my body in third person as I watched the cartoon. I became a part of the cartoon's narrative. It did this for me several times, but it stopped granting this blessing after awhile...

I still converse with this spirit. It asks me a lot of questions and sometimes we do have debates. It feels like it's "leading" me somewhere.

You are the schizo for believing all of the voices in your head to truly be "yours".

This spirit in me... It's not exactly me. I tried suppressing it for some time and its voice grew fainter, but still we talk sometimes.

[Anonymous No.23207779]

>>23198870
Inner monkey*

[Anonymous No.23207783]

>>23198870
>What is the unconscious mind?
We humans got along fine without language for hundreds of thousands of years. See Kekule Problem

[Anonymous No.23207900]

>>23198870
Yeah. But I can also tune it out quite easily when I focus on something.

[Anonymous No.23207901]

>>23206618
I feel like this and aphantasia are just attention seeking behaviors. Everyone does it, these people just don't realize it when they do it.

[Anonymous No.23208190]

>>23206772
>ou were young and there was that summer smell?
>>23206780
>Must you articulate the feeling of nostalgia?

this conversation is going circular. as i've already said, you don't need language to grasp onto feelings. I need language to fully appreciate and understand more dynamic aspects and build upon this.

this is never understand, and AGAIN leads me to believe you people can't really form complex thoughts.

[Anonymous No.23208211]

>>23208190
>more dynamic aspects
Such as the vibrancy of 90s sun? Your ego is so bloated you believe this to be a complex thought, but it's not. Your inner voice is a thought the conjunction of a feeling and appreciation of the feeling can be done without the inner monologue by simply picturing the experience in your mind, no words required. Your inability to grasp this is the roadblock in this conversation.